6 ms·

The c2 wiki was down

196 points by wtbob 10y ago

greenyoda 10y ago
Since there's still a link to it on the home page (http://www.c2.com http://www.c2.com), this may be a temporary situation.
agumonkey 10y ago
Aww hell no, this is one gigantic cultural artefact that needs to stay afloat.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  I wish they reenabled comments if they haven't already. It was disabled shortly after I discovered it. I ended up reading all kinds of discussions there as they were really interesting.
  - agumonkey 10y ago
    When I found out about c2 I was both after the read only mode I believe, and way too uneducated to be able to comment on anything, too much content :D
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    Yes. The XmlIsaPoorCopyOfEssExpressions page is/was a classic. Updated with archive link: http://web.archive.org/web/20160820214102/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?XmlIsaPoorCopyOfEssExpressions http://web.archive.org/web/20160820214102/http://c2.com/cgi/...
    - mmcclellan 10y ago
      I remember that page. Thinking back some of the stuff on Plain Text formats, the Unix Way, YNGNI really did influence me.
      - zeveb 10y ago
        Yeah, in a way a lot of those discussions were a last gasp of folks trying to do things correctly, before everyone learned to just relax and enjoy going with the flow. It makes me sad to read them now, a decade or more later, and think of what might have been.
- philippeback 10y ago
  Yeah, my page is gone... This is really an old thing for sure, packed with interesting stuff. Never heard of backups at C2? Geez, this is just a bunch of text files. I even have the original Perl script from Ward, I deployed a skunkworks Wiki at a client eons ago using it.
geerlingguy 10y ago
Still running Apache 2.0.x as well; looks like it could just be a server going down/offline due to bitrot? There were a lot of great discussions in that wiki, hope it comes back up (though it's in the wayback machine, at least).
- nathancahill 10y ago
  > though it's in the wayback machine, at least We're going to see this more and more over the next decade. If you aren't yet, please become a sustaining member of the Internet Archive[0]. If you want to try Mozilla's new addon that automatically fetches the most recent saved page from the Wayback Machine, install No More 404s[1]. [0] https://archive.org/donate/ https://archive.org/donate/ [1] https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/no-more-404s https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/no-more-404s [1] This is how the page loads for me with No More 404s: http://i.imgur.com/DyyRDZR.png http://i.imgur.com/DyyRDZR.png
  - Frogolocalypse 10y ago
    > We're going to see this more and more over the next decade. The same thing is happening with torrenting because of the advent of streaming services. I'm not criticizing, because I think it is clearly better that artists are paid for their content. My observation is simply that people don't download if they can stream, but eventually streaming services discontinue content. And when they do, the ability to acquire that content is much reduced.
    - seanp2k2 10y ago
      You might like Karagarga :)
      - SSLy 10y ago
        Even if you want to use services like that, KG isn't by far the easiest to use, nor does it have the biggest library.
      - 10y ago
zenobit256 10y ago
Nooooo! I've been trying to mirror it over the past few days, but it keeps going on and off... Somebody contact Ward Cunningham!
- junke 10y ago
  Oh, so it's you! ;-)
russtrpkovski 10y ago
https://twitter.com/WardCunningham/status/785960076041302016 https://twitter.com/WardCunningham/status/785960076041302016
- weinzierl 10y ago
  > http://c2.com http://c2.com is again serving web requests after several days of disk repair. That is technically correct, c2.com is serving web requests, but the wiki is still down. I hope it comes back, notwithstanding the availability of the content on archive.org.
  - weinzierl 10y ago
    We have news from Ward. The c2 wiki will be moved over to a federated wiki, whatever this means. Discussion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12715560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12715560.
    - andrewflnr 10y ago
      He's telling you "Google 'federated wiki'". It's a pretty neat concept, actually.
      - weinzierl 10y ago
        Yep, I fixed it. Thanks.
    - akavel 10y ago
      I'd read it not as "Google (the company) federated wiki (product name)", but rather as "google (verb) federated wiki (keyword describing a technology)" - i.e. https://www.google.com/search?q=federated+wiki https://www.google.com/search?q=federated+wiki, or http://ddg.gg?q=federated+wiki http://ddg.gg?q=federated+wiki if you prefer.
      - weinzierl 10y ago
skykooler 10y ago
Could someone explain what this was?
- ihuman 10y ago
  It is the location of WikiWikiWeb, the first ever wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiWikiWeb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiWikiWeb
- rabz 10y ago
  Beyond being the first wiki wiki and the model for Wikipedia, the Portland Pattern Repository was a place where many of the principles of Agile software development were hashed out through discussion of the leading members of that movement. It was closer to the discussion pages of Wikipedia, where someone would write on a topic, and another would add more dimension or a counterpoint to what was written. Instead of creating a page of what, say, Extreme Programming was, pages full of discussion of how it was implemented on site or how it could be improved were generated; when it became too large, someone might refactor that page into several different pages, such as XP Principles, XP Practices, XP implementations, and so on.
  - derefr 10y ago
    In practice, though, most of the "settled" pages ended up looking a lot like TVTropes. Basically, c2 is/was "Software Engineering Tropes."
    - shagie 10y ago
      Elsewhere on the net, there are two sites that convention mandated a warning flag for fear of clicking the rest of the afternoon following interesting things. TVTropes... and C2.
    - labster 10y ago
      In my fork of TV Tropes, All The Tropes, I explicitly compare software patterns to entertainment tropes, as they're essentially the same thing.
KirinDave 10y ago
That makes me sad. I worked of a lot of those pages there.
drdre2001 10y ago
Would it be possible to put the whole website on IPFS?
verytrivial 10y ago
There is a backup? Right ... ?
rwerqp 10y ago
There is also http://archive.is/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?* http://archive.is/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?*
ieRei6ae 10y ago
Archive.org to the rescue: https://web.archive.org/web/20160925063638/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WelcomeVisitors https://web.archive.org/web/20160925063638/http://c2.com/cgi...
johncalvinyoung 10y ago
I was trained as a developer under some of those early masters in Agile/XP. Including frequent references to that wiki. I sure hope we can reconstruct it and get it back online as soon as possible!
hartator 10y ago
wayback_machine_downloader www.c2.com -c 20 Ref: https://github.com/hartator/wayback-machine-downloader https://github.com/hartator/wayback-machine-downloader
mindcrash 10y ago
As of now it is up again, just noticed it personally. So no need for backups or archive.org :)

196 points by wtbob 10y ago

Since there's still a link to it on the home page (http://www.c2.com http://www.c2.com), this may be a temporary situation.

agumonkey 10y ago

Aww hell no, this is one gigantic cultural artefact that needs to stay afloat.

nickpsecurity 10y ago
I wish they reenabled comments if they haven't already. It was disabled shortly after I discovered it. I ended up reading all kinds of discussions there as they were really interesting.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  When I found out about c2 I was both after the read only mode I believe, and way too uneducated to be able to comment on anything, too much content :D
- Turing_Machine 10y ago
  Yes. The XmlIsaPoorCopyOfEssExpressions page is/was a classic. Updated with archive link: http://web.archive.org/web/20160820214102/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?XmlIsaPoorCopyOfEssExpressions http://web.archive.org/web/20160820214102/http://c2.com/cgi/...
  - mmcclellan 10y ago
    I remember that page. Thinking back some of the stuff on Plain Text formats, the Unix Way, YNGNI really did influence me.
    - zeveb 10y ago
      Yeah, in a way a lot of those discussions were a last gasp of folks trying to do things correctly, before everyone learned to just relax and enjoy going with the flow. It makes me sad to read them now, a decade or more later, and think of what might have been.
philippeback 10y ago
Yeah, my page is gone... This is really an old thing for sure, packed with interesting stuff. Never heard of backups at C2? Geez, this is just a bunch of text files. I even have the original Perl script from Ward, I deployed a skunkworks Wiki at a client eons ago using it.

geerlingguy 10y ago

Still running Apache 2.0.x as well; looks like it could just be a server going down/offline due to bitrot? There were a lot of great discussions in that wiki, hope it comes back up (though it's in the wayback machine, at least).

nathancahill 10y ago
> though it's in the wayback machine, at least We're going to see this more and more over the next decade. If you aren't yet, please become a sustaining member of the Internet Archive[0]. If you want to try Mozilla's new addon that automatically fetches the most recent saved page from the Wayback Machine, install No More 404s[1]. [0] https://archive.org/donate/ https://archive.org/donate/ [1] https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/no-more-404s https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/no-more-404s [1] This is how the page loads for me with No More 404s: http://i.imgur.com/DyyRDZR.png http://i.imgur.com/DyyRDZR.png
- Frogolocalypse 10y ago
  > We're going to see this more and more over the next decade. The same thing is happening with torrenting because of the advent of streaming services. I'm not criticizing, because I think it is clearly better that artists are paid for their content. My observation is simply that people don't download if they can stream, but eventually streaming services discontinue content. And when they do, the ability to acquire that content is much reduced.
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    You might like Karagarga :)
    - SSLy 10y ago
      Even if you want to use services like that, KG isn't by far the easiest to use, nor does it have the biggest library.
    - 10y ago

zenobit256 10y ago

Nooooo! I've been trying to mirror it over the past few days, but it keeps going on and off... Somebody contact Ward Cunningham!

junke 10y ago
Oh, so it's you! ;-)

russtrpkovski 10y ago

https://twitter.com/WardCunningham/status/785960076041302016 https://twitter.com/WardCunningham/status/785960076041302016

weinzierl 10y ago
> http://c2.com http://c2.com is again serving web requests after several days of disk repair. That is technically correct, c2.com is serving web requests, but the wiki is still down. I hope it comes back, notwithstanding the availability of the content on archive.org.
- weinzierl 10y ago
  We have news from Ward. The c2 wiki will be moved over to a federated wiki, whatever this means. Discussion here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12715560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12715560.
  - andrewflnr 10y ago
    He's telling you "Google 'federated wiki'". It's a pretty neat concept, actually.
    - weinzierl 10y ago
      Yep, I fixed it. Thanks.
  - akavel 10y ago
    I'd read it not as "Google (the company) federated wiki (product name)", but rather as "google (verb) federated wiki (keyword describing a technology)" - i.e. https://www.google.com/search?q=federated+wiki https://www.google.com/search?q=federated+wiki, or http://ddg.gg?q=federated+wiki http://ddg.gg?q=federated+wiki if you prefer.
    - weinzierl 10y ago

skykooler 10y ago

Could someone explain what this was?

ihuman 10y ago
It is the location of WikiWikiWeb, the first ever wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiWikiWeb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiWikiWeb
rabz 10y ago
Beyond being the first wiki wiki and the model for Wikipedia, the Portland Pattern Repository was a place where many of the principles of Agile software development were hashed out through discussion of the leading members of that movement. It was closer to the discussion pages of Wikipedia, where someone would write on a topic, and another would add more dimension or a counterpoint to what was written. Instead of creating a page of what, say, Extreme Programming was, pages full of discussion of how it was implemented on site or how it could be improved were generated; when it became too large, someone might refactor that page into several different pages, such as XP Principles, XP Practices, XP implementations, and so on.
- derefr 10y ago
  In practice, though, most of the "settled" pages ended up looking a lot like TVTropes. Basically, c2 is/was "Software Engineering Tropes."
  - shagie 10y ago
    Elsewhere on the net, there are two sites that convention mandated a warning flag for fear of clicking the rest of the afternoon following interesting things. TVTropes... and C2.
  - labster 10y ago
    In my fork of TV Tropes, All The Tropes, I explicitly compare software patterns to entertainment tropes, as they're essentially the same thing.

KirinDave 10y ago

That makes me sad. I worked of a lot of those pages there.

drdre2001 10y ago

Would it be possible to put the whole website on IPFS?

verytrivial 10y ago

There is a backup? Right ... ?

rwerqp 10y ago

There is also http://archive.is/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?* http://archive.is/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?*

ieRei6ae 10y ago

Archive.org to the rescue: https://web.archive.org/web/20160925063638/http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WelcomeVisitors https://web.archive.org/web/20160925063638/http://c2.com/cgi...

johncalvinyoung 10y ago

I was trained as a developer under some of those early masters in Agile/XP. Including frequent references to that wiki. I sure hope we can reconstruct it and get it back online as soon as possible!

hartator 10y ago

wayback_machine_downloader www.c2.com -c 20 Ref: https://github.com/hartator/wayback-machine-downloader https://github.com/hartator/wayback-machine-downloader

mindcrash 10y ago

As of now it is up again, just noticed it personally. So no need for backups or archive.org :)