8 ms·

I think by that logic no one values high quality food? A croissant in Paris is probably about 2 euros as well. If we both agree the French tend to do croissants

by blawson 10y ago

I think by that logic no one values high quality food? A croissant in Paris is probably about 2 euros as well. If we both agree the French tend to do croissants better, and care about it more, so how come theirs don't cost significantly more?

cheriot 10y ago
Perhaps there's more people in Paris that know how to make awesome croissants. Maybe it's considered "fancy" food in the US and marked up accordingly. There's a lot of economic levers to push.
- eli_gottlieb 10y ago
  >Perhaps there's more people in Paris that know how to make awesome croissants. Maybe it's considered "fancy" food in the US and marked up accordingly. True, but I can still make far superior chocolate-chip cookies (an American staple pastry) at home, for cheap, than I've ever had from 90% of stores and bakeries. Try out the following recipe with the addition of half a lemon's juice, switching out all the sugar for brown sugar. You can either use the full load of chocolate chips, or substitute dark chocolate, or do like I do and half the chocolates so you can enjoy the cookie. http://allrecipes.com/recipe/10813/best-chocolate-chip-cookies/ http://allrecipes.com/recipe/10813/best-chocolate-chip-cooki... (Mind, I might be an edge-case, since I've practiced baking since I was five years old.)
  - Moru 10y ago
    Would be much easier to try out recipes on the net if people would use scales for flour and sugar instead of a cup...
    - ansgri 10y ago
      After reading enough American news I can only joke that they are afraid that the ownership of marginally precise scales would automatically summon a police drug raid against them.
      - mc32 10y ago
        They are not uncommon, I have an electronic metric/imperial scale (they are sold in most home appliances shops). I prefer just scooping quantities out over weighing. In any case lots of times, after you get to know the recipe, you just eyeball the proportions. No need to be super precise in most instances. We're not making alloys.
- lostlogin 10y ago
  I have no idea if it's true, but I've heard it said that some types of pastry are very hard/impossible to make in some climates due to humidity. French pastries can be bought uncooked from France and baked after the flight for this reason. May be a gimmick but I worked by a place with French owners that did this. The pastries were excellent.
  - uhhuhuh 10y ago
    I don't know if that's true. I've had some pretty awesome pastries in French speaking Africa, made by French trained patissiers. Pastries that rivaled ones made in France. And this was in hot and humid climates.
  - mc32 10y ago
    The quality of pastry depends on ingredient quality, preparation, age of dough, and freshness out of the oven. There could be others. A pastry out of the oven is delicious. Which is why pastry made in house taste better than the hours old stuff you get at chain coffee shops.
vmarsy 10y ago
The parent specifically mentioned Americans. It's much easier to find the right and good ingredients for a recipe in France than is it in the U.S. Go to any supermarket in France and buy flour for instance: you'll find type T45, T55, T65, T80, T110, T150 [1]. And professional pastry recipes will tell you exactly what type of flour in what quantities. In the U.S. you will only find "All Purpose flour". I know French pasty chef in the U.S. who struggles to find the right ingredients. Since people care about getting T45 or T65, the producers create them at scale accordingly, and so it's possible to find a specific flour for the same price of "All purpose flour" in the U.S. [1] http://www.wessexmill.co.uk/acatalog/Flour-Types-T55-T45-Type-0-or-Type-00.html http://www.wessexmill.co.uk/acatalog/Flour-Types-T55-T45-Typ...
- mc32 10y ago
  Supermarkets may only carry two or three types of flour, all purpose, 110, and "pastry flour" and perhaps some whole grain.... But that's not where most bakers get their flour, most will get it from someone who specializes in delivering baking goods who will have a larger selection.
  - vmarsy 10y ago
    You're right. I was trying to convey the idea that: If it's easier for the consumers, it's also probably even easier for the professionals. I think those specialized deliverers are more rare in the U.S., and so the baker either has to pay for more expensive raw ingredients, or use lower quality.
- mamon 10y ago
  This is higly correlated with regulatory laws governing agriculture in US and Europe. EU has much more strict policies, limits on pesticide use, no GMO rule, plus specific laws to protect traditional (sometimes centuries old) product recipies from being faked by inustrial-scale producers, replacing natural ingredients with chemicals. That's why food generaly tastes much better in Europe.
  - driverdan 10y ago
tluyben2 10y ago
The price comparison is a bit weird there; there are some of the best croissants and baguettes by very small cheap shops in France while you pay a lot more for a nasty piece of 'doughy thing' in Starbucks for something that has the same name. That is incidentally another comparison where this falls flat; when my American friends visit, they insist on Starbucks every day. Not only is the coffee and the food better next door to it, it is far cheaper. Of course that is a matter of taste, but that is not the reason why my friends want to go to Starbucks; they find it familiar. Once I get them to go into a local small family run place, they don't go the rest of the stay to Starbucks however when they come back they seem to have forgotten the small place.
- tracker1 10y ago
  Can't speak for anyone else, but for years now, I tend to seek out more local mom-pop shops over the chains. Don't get me wrong, I eat at the chains too, especially breakfast (more functional meal), and will try to eat more locally at lunch/dinner. I also try to cook at least once a week. The cooking comes in spurts because I live alone.

by blawson 10y ago

cheriot 10y ago

Perhaps there's more people in Paris that know how to make awesome croissants. Maybe it's considered "fancy" food in the US and marked up accordingly. There's a lot of economic levers to push.

eli_gottlieb 10y ago
>Perhaps there's more people in Paris that know how to make awesome croissants. Maybe it's considered "fancy" food in the US and marked up accordingly. True, but I can still make far superior chocolate-chip cookies (an American staple pastry) at home, for cheap, than I've ever had from 90% of stores and bakeries. Try out the following recipe with the addition of half a lemon's juice, switching out all the sugar for brown sugar. You can either use the full load of chocolate chips, or substitute dark chocolate, or do like I do and half the chocolates so you can enjoy the cookie. http://allrecipes.com/recipe/10813/best-chocolate-chip-cookies/ http://allrecipes.com/recipe/10813/best-chocolate-chip-cooki... (Mind, I might be an edge-case, since I've practiced baking since I was five years old.)
- Moru 10y ago
  Would be much easier to try out recipes on the net if people would use scales for flour and sugar instead of a cup...
  - ansgri 10y ago
    After reading enough American news I can only joke that they are afraid that the ownership of marginally precise scales would automatically summon a police drug raid against them.
    - mc32 10y ago
      They are not uncommon, I have an electronic metric/imperial scale (they are sold in most home appliances shops). I prefer just scooping quantities out over weighing. In any case lots of times, after you get to know the recipe, you just eyeball the proportions. No need to be super precise in most instances. We're not making alloys.
lostlogin 10y ago
I have no idea if it's true, but I've heard it said that some types of pastry are very hard/impossible to make in some climates due to humidity. French pastries can be bought uncooked from France and baked after the flight for this reason. May be a gimmick but I worked by a place with French owners that did this. The pastries were excellent.
- uhhuhuh 10y ago
  I don't know if that's true. I've had some pretty awesome pastries in French speaking Africa, made by French trained patissiers. Pastries that rivaled ones made in France. And this was in hot and humid climates.
- mc32 10y ago
  The quality of pastry depends on ingredient quality, preparation, age of dough, and freshness out of the oven. There could be others. A pastry out of the oven is delicious. Which is why pastry made in house taste better than the hours old stuff you get at chain coffee shops.

vmarsy 10y ago

The parent specifically mentioned Americans. It's much easier to find the right and good ingredients for a recipe in France than is it in the U.S. Go to any supermarket in France and buy flour for instance: you'll find type T45, T55, T65, T80, T110, T150 [1]. And professional pastry recipes will tell you exactly what type of flour in what quantities. In the U.S. you will only find "All Purpose flour". I know French pasty chef in the U.S. who struggles to find the right ingredients. Since people care about getting T45 or T65, the producers create them at scale accordingly, and so it's possible to find a specific flour for the same price of "All purpose flour" in the U.S. [1] http://www.wessexmill.co.uk/acatalog/Flour-Types-T55-T45-Type-0-or-Type-00.html http://www.wessexmill.co.uk/acatalog/Flour-Types-T55-T45-Typ...

mc32 10y ago
Supermarkets may only carry two or three types of flour, all purpose, 110, and "pastry flour" and perhaps some whole grain.... But that's not where most bakers get their flour, most will get it from someone who specializes in delivering baking goods who will have a larger selection.
- vmarsy 10y ago
  You're right. I was trying to convey the idea that: If it's easier for the consumers, it's also probably even easier for the professionals. I think those specialized deliverers are more rare in the U.S., and so the baker either has to pay for more expensive raw ingredients, or use lower quality.
mamon 10y ago
This is higly correlated with regulatory laws governing agriculture in US and Europe. EU has much more strict policies, limits on pesticide use, no GMO rule, plus specific laws to protect traditional (sometimes centuries old) product recipies from being faked by inustrial-scale producers, replacing natural ingredients with chemicals. That's why food generaly tastes much better in Europe.
- driverdan 10y ago

tluyben2 10y ago

The price comparison is a bit weird there; there are some of the best croissants and baguettes by very small cheap shops in France while you pay a lot more for a nasty piece of 'doughy thing' in Starbucks for something that has the same name. That is incidentally another comparison where this falls flat; when my American friends visit, they insist on Starbucks every day. Not only is the coffee and the food better next door to it, it is far cheaper. Of course that is a matter of taste, but that is not the reason why my friends want to go to Starbucks; they find it familiar. Once I get them to go into a local small family run place, they don't go the rest of the stay to Starbucks however when they come back they seem to have forgotten the small place.

tracker1 10y ago
Can't speak for anyone else, but for years now, I tend to seek out more local mom-pop shops over the chains. Don't get me wrong, I eat at the chains too, especially breakfast (more functional meal), and will try to eat more locally at lunch/dinner. I also try to cook at least once a week. The cooking comes in spurts because I live alone.