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Hi, thanks for asking! :) Some background: I've used Linux since 2004. I think I mostly used Ubuntu, Fedora, and Arch. Recently (2013) I've move to macOS as my

Hi, thanks for asking! :) Some background: I've used Linux since 2004. I think I mostly used Ubuntu, Fedora, and Arch. Recently (2013) I've move to macOS as my primary OS. * Snapshots. Many of my co-workers are actually afraid to run 'dnf upgrade' (or equivalent) out of fear of it breaking the system. About half wait about a month after a major release, then upgrade to that, get it working, then never touch it. If dnf could take a snapshot and print "if you experience issues, you can revert back by running 'snapshot --revert-to $snapshot_name'". Similar for the GUI. * App Store style interface for the repos. * I can't remember if Fedora separated updates into 'new version' vs 'security update' vs 'bugfix'. I would like if security and bugfix installed silently and without intervention (with opt-out provided). I would also like it if new version updates could be marked auto-install on an individual basis and if it would also notify me about what it did. Android does this well, imo. * Better ability to keep up with the lastest version of package X, particularly when X is related to my dev stack. If the next version has some features you're excited about, it is really unsatisfying to have to wait 4 months because that's when the next Fedora is. Ubuntu has tackled this with PPAs. Chakra (dunno if it is still around) was a semi-rolling release (it updated the base-OS in one go every few months, but everything else would just chase the latest version). Having to setup rvm and the like is just a pita. * This will be a bigger/long-term thing: separation of my dev stack from the OS. One thing I really like about macOS (homebrew) is that I can chase the latest python/ruby/vim/etc without worrying about that breaking a Gnome app that happens to be written in Python. * Look nice. A lot of people will write this off as frivolous, but I think it matters. If you are going to be staring at something all day, why not have that thing be nice to look at? Fedora has generally done well here. I don't know how it stands when you throw hi-DPI and mixed-DPI at it though. * Be able to connect to Cisco VPN and Cisco wifi out of the box. BTW: What does 'dnf' stand for? How is it pronounced? 'dee-en-eff' or 'dunf' or something else?

pzone 10y ago
Mixed DPI should ultimately be fixed under Wayland. Not sure what the current status is either, but at least it should be possible in theory, whereas mixed DPI goes against X protocol too fundamentally to be worth hacking on.
mattdm 10y ago
Snapshots: The ostree-based workstation some people are working on will provide this kind of functionality. We're also looking at providing development environments in containers, for better isolation of updates. App Store: Can you elaborate? Something different from what we have in Software today? * Security updates separate: yes, we separate updates into new package, enhancement, bugfix, and security. You can can configure dnf-automatic to install just security updates automatically. Opt-in rather than opt-out. * Keeping the X you care about on the version you care about, and separating the dev stack from the OS. Yes, absolutely. We have Coprs as an equivalent to Ubuntu's PPAs, but I don't think that's very satisfying. We have a big initiative called Modularity which is aimed at delivering this for everything across the distro. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNLhcYEMgO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNLhcYEMgO0 for a quick intro. * Look nice: yes, we definitely try. Everyone has different ideas, though. * Cisco: Doesn't this work? If it doesn't require something proprietary, I think it _should_. Point me to any open bugs if it doesn't. :) * DNF: Officially does not stand for anything. "Dee en eff" is what I hear.
kasabali 10y ago
> What does 'dnf' stand for? Did not finish, apparently: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/7ULAG243UNGTOSL6URGNG23GC4B6X5GB/ https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fe...
- mattdm 10y ago
  This isn't really DNF specific — it can happen with any package manager. Whenever I run a DNF update that is going to affect X or my GNOME session, I run it in tmux. There's not really a good solution _other_ than that, which is why the desktop team promotes the reboot-to-apply-updates approach for the general case. It's annoying to have to do that, but it's very reliable. (Or, if you're more tech savvy, the tmux or switch-to-a-VT thing is just fine.)
  - kasabali 10y ago
    > This isn't really DNF specific — it can happen with any package manager I don't know about other package managers, but please don't generalize dnf's behavior here to the others, because apt-get and dpkg would be just fine in this case. You can even disconnect from the ssh session and apt-get will continue until it is finished. In the worst case scenario you would call apt-get -f install and it would continue where it's left. > There's not really a good solution _other_ than that, Of course offline updates are valuable for the 0.001% scenarios but there are basic resiliency measures one should take while writing the basic building block of the distribution, before throwing in the towel and suggesting running it inside tmux or to use offline updates for everything.
    - mattdm 10y ago
      I'm sure there are some things that could be done better. In particular, DNF could do with better completion of interrupted transactions — the session dying is only one possible interruption.
    - the_why_of_y 10y ago
      > I don't know about other package managers, but please don't generalize dnf's behavior here to the others, because apt-get and dpkg would be just fine in this case. This claim is not matched by my personal experience. Recovery is usually possible, but depending on the particulars may require non-trivial efforts.

pzone 10y ago

Mixed DPI should ultimately be fixed under Wayland. Not sure what the current status is either, but at least it should be possible in theory, whereas mixed DPI goes against X protocol too fundamentally to be worth hacking on.

mattdm 10y ago

Snapshots: The ostree-based workstation some people are working on will provide this kind of functionality. We're also looking at providing development environments in containers, for better isolation of updates. App Store: Can you elaborate? Something different from what we have in Software today? * Security updates separate: yes, we separate updates into new package, enhancement, bugfix, and security. You can can configure dnf-automatic to install just security updates automatically. Opt-in rather than opt-out. * Keeping the X you care about on the version you care about, and separating the dev stack from the OS. Yes, absolutely. We have Coprs as an equivalent to Ubuntu's PPAs, but I don't think that's very satisfying. We have a big initiative called Modularity which is aimed at delivering this for everything across the distro. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNLhcYEMgO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNLhcYEMgO0 for a quick intro. * Look nice: yes, we definitely try. Everyone has different ideas, though. * Cisco: Doesn't this work? If it doesn't require something proprietary, I think it _should_. Point me to any open bugs if it doesn't. :) * DNF: Officially does not stand for anything. "Dee en eff" is what I hear.

kasabali 10y ago

> What does 'dnf' stand for? Did not finish, apparently: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/7ULAG243UNGTOSL6URGNG23GC4B6X5GB/ https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fe...

mattdm 10y ago
This isn't really DNF specific — it can happen with any package manager. Whenever I run a DNF update that is going to affect X or my GNOME session, I run it in tmux. There's not really a good solution _other_ than that, which is why the desktop team promotes the reboot-to-apply-updates approach for the general case. It's annoying to have to do that, but it's very reliable. (Or, if you're more tech savvy, the tmux or switch-to-a-VT thing is just fine.)
- kasabali 10y ago
  > This isn't really DNF specific — it can happen with any package manager I don't know about other package managers, but please don't generalize dnf's behavior here to the others, because apt-get and dpkg would be just fine in this case. You can even disconnect from the ssh session and apt-get will continue until it is finished. In the worst case scenario you would call apt-get -f install and it would continue where it's left. > There's not really a good solution _other_ than that, Of course offline updates are valuable for the 0.001% scenarios but there are basic resiliency measures one should take while writing the basic building block of the distribution, before throwing in the towel and suggesting running it inside tmux or to use offline updates for everything.
  - mattdm 10y ago
    I'm sure there are some things that could be done better. In particular, DNF could do with better completion of interrupted transactions — the session dying is only one possible interruption.
  - the_why_of_y 10y ago
    > I don't know about other package managers, but please don't generalize dnf's behavior here to the others, because apt-get and dpkg would be just fine in this case. This claim is not matched by my personal experience. Recovery is usually possible, but depending on the particulars may require non-trivial efforts.