6 ms·
Scientists plan to create 'Asgardia' nation state in space
- maxander 10y agoI suppose in a sort of realpolitik sense, in order to recognized such a "nation" would need to have appreciable geopolitical impact. Impact means resources, and having resources, for a state without natural resources, means collecting taxes. So, the question is, would these wannabe Asguardians pay? Recognition (and space sovereignty issues) aside, a "virtual state" like this could be useful! For instance- Suppose such a state with fairly open "immigration," that collected income taxes and put that money into a central bank and a welfare program. Attract a sufficient affluent population with ethical appeal and favorable banking, and you can provide a little shadow-socialist support structure.
- micaksica 10y agoThese ideas are cute and trend well on HN, but I fail to see what real political effect they have outside of making some people feel good that they can pretend to be some type of star citizen. Sealand had a better claim to the traditional definition of sovereignty than a roving satellite you can't even set foot on ever will have. Geopolitics is more than sticking a flag on something, and then saying it's a nation-state. No current country will respect the "citizenship" of Asgardia, and the "citizens" of Asgardia will be subject to the laws of their resident countries. The moment there is any real threat to the current geopolitical status quo by an orbiting nation-state platform, the current powers, assuming equivalent strength in the future, will strangle or corrupt it from existence with financial and military power. I don't even see how it would ever get powerful enough for other nations to take notice; a hypothetical space station makes a terrible nation state because it has no resources of its own. Without resources it is powerless and reliant on other states. Let's assume it has trade from asteroid mining or the like; with these resources and trade it is, for military/national security purposes, an enormously fragile platform floating in a place uninhabitable to humans if there is so much as an air leak. It is pretty much the least defensible position, and all it takes is a strongarm threat of blowing it in half with a nuclear weapon to make them pay attention to you. What retaliatory force do you have if your space station inhabitants all died from asphyxiation?
- Razengan 10y agoSo let's indulge this hypothetical scenario further, for fun. Say one of the currently powerful countries establish a research station on the dark side of the Moon, and it becomes self-sustaining at some point, from say asteroid mining and 3D printing and growing synthesized food, powered by using whatever's on the moon for some nuclear whatchamacallit system. What if that colony decides to become politically independent? Would any of the nations back on Earth be able to project force on the far side of our moon? Won't it be very easy for the Moonians to just shoot down any approaching ships or ballistics?
- Retric 10y agoWon't it be very easy for the Moonians to just shoot down any approaching ships or ballistics? No, because kinetic weapons work fine in space and you can't dodge a moon base making it a really easy target. Consider this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/50_caliber_Mark_7_gun https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/16%22/50_caliber_Mark_7_gun They fired projectiles weighing from 1,900 to 2,700 pounds (850 to 1,200 kg) at a maximum speed of 2,690 feet per second (820 m/s) with a range of up to 24 miles (39 km). At maximum range the projectile spent almost 1½ minutes in flight. now you have a minute to do something how do you stop one of these.
- Razengan 10y agoIs it currently possible to fire something from Earth and have it curve around to the other side of the moon without being vulnerable to a point defense system along the way?
- Retric 10y agoYes, just launch a rocket with a sold lead ball as a payload. Point defense is still more science fiction than reality but it requires a delicate target so you can detonate near it and destroy it. However, without air resistance there is no need for a nuclear or HE payload just go faster.
- 10y ago
- gregjwild 10y agoI cannot fathom why someone would want to recreate the flawed idea of a nation state in space. Not that this is in the slightest bit viable. But still, whatever polities exist in space, they should not be nation states.
- duaneb 10y ago> pacifist nation-state These seem to be directly contrary. What's the point of nationalism without subjugating the inferior? I think it's just called 'culture' at that point. Also, Igor Ashurbeiyli is not a scientist, he is a businessman with an engineering PhD.
- cyphar 10y agoA nation state means a group of people who only have to obey their own laws. It has nothing to do with nationalism.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dllthomas 10y agoThat doesn't seem to square with the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state > A nation state is a type of state that conjoins the political entity of a state to the cultural entity of a nation
- ewzimm 10y agoThere's something beautiful about the fact that the most powerful people at the tops of similar power structures looked out from one planet at trillions of galaxies and said nope, these kinds of arrangements end here at the edge of our atmosphere.
- informatimago 10y agoWhen you're fed up with bully governments such as the US, who claim multi-billion dollars fines on alien companies just because they were forced to use USD to trade with other alien companies, you will begin to see the point of escaping from this planet.
- heroprotagonist 10y agoThe Asgardia website is pretty vague about its goals. They almost sound like the stereotype of mad scientists who want to skirt ethical regulations around research and experimentation: http://asgardia.space/concept http://asgardia.space/concept Economical and political considerations often take precedence over purely scientific ones and ethical boundaries are considered necessary to sustain safety. ... Asgardia will demonstrate to scientists throughout the world that independent, private and unrestricted research is possible. ... Asgardia [...] will offer an independent platform free from the constraint of a land-based country’s laws. I'm not sure how helpful their satellite will be to this end, if they can't put scientists on it to perform their research. They'll still be bound by the laws of whichever country they reside within.
- soufron 10y agoAt the same time... what kind of laws do they want to get rid of?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- packetslave 10y agoIf you don't have an army, you don't have a "nation state". You have a clubhouse.
- nickff 10y agoThere are many 'nation states' without armies of their own.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_arme...
- stcredzero 10y agoAlmost everyone on that list has a deal with someone else who will come in with their armed forces to protect them.
- jesuslop 10y agoI've always found this idea intriguing and fun. It hasn't to be something in outer space, it can just be a landless state, constituted by people itself. Some opensource lessons about cooperation could be applied to create the foundational legal corpus. You would still be bound to your current law, but some conceptual political experimentation could be done bloodlessly as sometimes has happened in tangible nationalities. State sanctioned digital currency could rise some eyebrows.
- daltondiaz 10y agoSounds like Sidonia! =D
- FullMtlAlcoholc 10y agoReading about this, I personally think what a waste. The idea of colonizing Mars has a certain appeal because there would finally be an escape from nation-states and the games they play with their citizens as pawns. No indoctrination that starts at preschool, appeals to patriotism/nationalism where your state is the best and everyone else is inferior due to some combination of religion, ethnicity, or values. It represents a new beginning, a world without artificial, fictional boundaries where all must cooperate to survive, a place where there is a recognition that we are all one species.
- jshevek 10y ago> finally be an escape from nation-states and the games they play with their citizens as pawns. With our current culture, this will not last long.
- lesserknowndan 10y agoI'm surprised that no one has drawn parallels with the underwater city of Rapture from Bioshock.
- stcredzero 10y agoThey claim to be a nation of people in space. They have a name based on the mythological place of Asgard. Not only do they have to contend with the US, Russia, and other spacefaring powers, but they might also get a call from Marvel Comics lawyers. (Read: Disney's lawyers.)
- ocdtrekkie 10y agoI highly doubt Disney can claim ownership to Asgard.
- dllthomas 10y agoDisney can claim anything they damn well please.
- soufron 10y agoThey need to understand that atlas shrugged is just a book - and badly written that is.
- soufron 10y agoThey need to understand that atlas shrugged is just a book - and badly written that is.
- scififan2 10y agoCertainly possible, but mostly only very, very, very rich people would live there. Have a look at "Elysium". The rich people would create their own culture. They wouldn't take care about the Earth.
- scififan2 10y agoCertainly possible, but mostly only very, very, very rich people would live there. Have a look at "Elysium". The rich people would create their own culture. They wouldn't take care about the Earth.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]