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I recently found out that Orwell was really concerned about the effects of radio. We've since had 70 years of television and I can count the number of titles th

I recently found out that Orwell was really concerned about the effects of radio. We've since had 70 years of television and I can count the number of titles that cover the subconscious effects of that sort of communications on one, maybe both hands. Most of what we now call "ideology" isn't even ideology. I don't know how people who don't understand the basic heritage of most of the ideas they hear even listen to anything. Most of the points of disagreement between two competing ideologies aren't that significant in the end analysis. They are at least small in number, and should be understandable well by proponents and opponents alike. But run on the track of narrative, and they gain a lot of power. But I view the idea that this is a reflection of anything approaching actual "power" to be questionable. It's holding a mirror up to people and asking them to approve. There's no "gain" from it, outside of areas where we're attempting to measure opinion. Now, it does get people elected. But look how well that is going. I miss people like Wm. F. Buckley and Christopher Hitchens, who would acknowledge their biases and even explain the reasons behind them. There is a PBS "Independent Lens", "Best Enemies" that seems to identify the exact point at which the present era began - the 1968 "debates" between Buckley and Gore Vidal. ABC "won" ratings with it and it's been downhill ever since.

jwtadvice 10y ago
I remember reading a definition from a DoD document for 'legitimacy': "the willingness of people to act according to the will of a government without coercive compulsion." In the same vein a definition for 'power': "The degree to which outcomes can be influenced into a desirable state." The ability to build and dissolve legitimacy absolutely is power. The ability to build consensus and through that consensus change outcomes absolutely is power.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  I sort of disagree - I think the collective wisdom of a people is latent and needs only be discovered. It may contain inconsistencies which require professionals to help with, but the problem with your way is that people can seek power for its own sake. I think it's been shown that "desirable" is extremely fungible. Sometimes "desirable" becomes "regrettable", later on. I thank you for those definitions, though - that's some cogitatin' for me to be done there. They're kind of value-free definitions. Can't tell if that is bad or good.
  - jwtadvice 10y ago
    To be clear I'm not stating what I believe is the ideal for the world. I'm describing how I perceive that the world - power - and information demonstrably work today.
    - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
      Understood - and I got that quite clearly. I don't know why, but I still think of this as a discovery process and less "architecture". I think "architecture" is in fashion now.

jwtadvice 10y ago

I remember reading a definition from a DoD document for 'legitimacy': "the willingness of people to act according to the will of a government without coercive compulsion." In the same vein a definition for 'power': "The degree to which outcomes can be influenced into a desirable state." The ability to build and dissolve legitimacy absolutely is power. The ability to build consensus and through that consensus change outcomes absolutely is power.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago
I sort of disagree - I think the collective wisdom of a people is latent and needs only be discovered. It may contain inconsistencies which require professionals to help with, but the problem with your way is that people can seek power for its own sake. I think it's been shown that "desirable" is extremely fungible. Sometimes "desirable" becomes "regrettable", later on. I thank you for those definitions, though - that's some cogitatin' for me to be done there. They're kind of value-free definitions. Can't tell if that is bad or good.
- jwtadvice 10y ago
  To be clear I'm not stating what I believe is the ideal for the world. I'm describing how I perceive that the world - power - and information demonstrably work today.
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    Understood - and I got that quite clearly. I don't know why, but I still think of this as a discovery process and less "architecture". I think "architecture" is in fashion now.