5 ms·

I'm not sure what your point is... If you're saying I'm resistant to new ideas, perhaps, to some degree. My point was more that if you want to make people recep

I'm not sure what your point is... If you're saying I'm resistant to new ideas, perhaps, to some degree. My point was more that if you want to make people receptive to a new idea, slamming them as ignorant fools for not knowing about it already, or condescending to them for not immediately genuflecting before it isn't the best approach.

pjmlp 10y ago
The point being that we have seen the future like Bret puts it, and are to certain extent disappointed that the industry keeps doing left turns. Many C++ users are finally enjoying environments like Clion and incremental compilers, well this was a C++ environment in 1993: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQQTScuApWk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQQTScuApWk Built on top of Lucid Common Lisp infrastructure, as Lucid pivoted their business to C++. IBM had a similar one, that imported C++ into a database, offering a Smalltalk like development experience for C++, called VisualAge C++ Professional 4.0 http://www.edm2.com/index.php/IBM_VAC_3.0 http://www.edm2.com/index.php/IBM_VAC_3.0 So yeah, we are grey hair dogs disappointed how things evolve.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Fair enough. And it is irritating, I won't lie. We're too perf-obsessed for our own good. But complaining about it, or condescending the way many do, won't do any good: Either you're preaching to the choir, or you're irritating people, thus making them less likely to listen to you (sometimes both in one person, like me. But then, I took a while to come around on a lot of this stuff). If you want a future, build it. If you're already doing it, keep doing so, and find ways to win people over, not alienate them. By the way, almost none of this is aimed directly at you...
  - PeCaN 10y ago
    Looking at software today, I'm note sure we're perf-obsessed enough actually. Fortunately, simpler, faster, and more powerful all go hand in hand if you pick the right abstractions. And I am building something better—think AS/400 with an APL-inspired Forth dialect. It is certainly alienating, but (hopefully) the system will have enough fun demos to hook people, and the language runs on other OSes to tempt people in. ;)
    - analognoise 10y ago
      Do you have anything to show off of the other system you're working on? It sounds interesting.
      - PeCaN 10y ago
        Not a whole lot, no. There are some cryptic documents on the language and some various experiments I've done with the seL4 microkernel. Currently I'm working on getting the language solidified and the completing the implementation (and removing all the usual dependencies, so that it should be relatively straightforward to port to a fairly bare microkernel environment).
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      That sounds cool :-). Let us know when you release. As for your opinions on perf, I can see where you're coming from, but I'm a Lisp programmer. If I agreed with you, I likely wouldn't be one.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

pjmlp 10y ago

The point being that we have seen the future like Bret puts it, and are to certain extent disappointed that the industry keeps doing left turns. Many C++ users are finally enjoying environments like Clion and incremental compilers, well this was a C++ environment in 1993: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQQTScuApWk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQQTScuApWk Built on top of Lucid Common Lisp infrastructure, as Lucid pivoted their business to C++. IBM had a similar one, that imported C++ into a database, offering a Smalltalk like development experience for C++, called VisualAge C++ Professional 4.0 http://www.edm2.com/index.php/IBM_VAC_3.0 http://www.edm2.com/index.php/IBM_VAC_3.0 So yeah, we are grey hair dogs disappointed how things evolve.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Fair enough. And it is irritating, I won't lie. We're too perf-obsessed for our own good. But complaining about it, or condescending the way many do, won't do any good: Either you're preaching to the choir, or you're irritating people, thus making them less likely to listen to you (sometimes both in one person, like me. But then, I took a while to come around on a lot of this stuff). If you want a future, build it. If you're already doing it, keep doing so, and find ways to win people over, not alienate them. By the way, almost none of this is aimed directly at you...
- PeCaN 10y ago
  Looking at software today, I'm note sure we're perf-obsessed enough actually. Fortunately, simpler, faster, and more powerful all go hand in hand if you pick the right abstractions. And I am building something better—think AS/400 with an APL-inspired Forth dialect. It is certainly alienating, but (hopefully) the system will have enough fun demos to hook people, and the language runs on other OSes to tempt people in. ;)
  - analognoise 10y ago
    Do you have anything to show off of the other system you're working on? It sounds interesting.
    - PeCaN 10y ago
      Not a whole lot, no. There are some cryptic documents on the language and some various experiments I've done with the seL4 microkernel. Currently I'm working on getting the language solidified and the completing the implementation (and removing all the usual dependencies, so that it should be relatively straightforward to port to a fairly bare microkernel environment).
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    That sounds cool :-). Let us know when you release. As for your opinions on perf, I can see where you're coming from, but I'm a Lisp programmer. If I agreed with you, I likely wouldn't be one.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]