7 ms·

The Republican Party has failed to field a credible candidate for quite some time. If you believe in science and equal rights for women and minorities, those da

by v64 10y ago

The Republican Party has failed to field a credible candidate for quite some time. If you believe in science and equal rights for women and minorities, those damn "elites" are all we have.

marcoperaza 10y ago
Mitt Romney was a very good candidate, except for his ultimate lack of fight. If you really believe that women and minorities don't have equal rights, then I can only urge you to dig a little deeper. Gender wage discrimination is a made-up problem, the statistics that you hear don't control for career choice, hours-worked, positions-sought, etc. The problem with our police force is that it's not professionalized once you get below the federal level. Police are too aggressive and quick to use force, but it's not a racial issue. SJWism is a cancer on Western civilization and it's one of the most pressing problems we face, because it prevents us from having honest conversations about any other problem. Debates these days always devolve into accusations of racism/sexism/"ableism", or whatever the latest boogeyman "ism" is.
- germinalphrase 10y ago
  Are you saying that race/racism does not have a meaningful effect on a person's opportunities in life?
  - marcoperaza 10y ago
    Race does. There's no doubt that being born into a inner-city black community is a devastating hand to be dealt. Such children are likely to be raised by single mothers, surrounded by violent crime, in schools with rampant gang activity, and in a culture that devalues success as an act of racial betrayal. But racism is not a significant factor these days. In fact, minorities who do escape the fatalism of these communities are advantaged by widespread affirmative action, not just in school admissions, but in hiring, business loans, professional recognition, etc.
    - scum_master 10y ago
      I disagree. The reason that being born into an inner city black community is a devastating hand is precisely because of racism. Race does not exist in a vacuum. Look at the legislation that makes possession a crime. Look at the way selective enforcement results in blacks being over represented in prison systems. Look at the way the urban school districts are underfunded. You can pretend that the system is not racist, but when one racial group suffers disproportionately from legislation that is regressive, unfair and has not been repealed or changed since the era when Jim Crow was wakking, you have a racist system. We can put feel good bandaids over some college admission laws and we can even elect a black president, but until we fundamentally rework the laws and institutions of this country, we cannot call racism dead. That is the opinion of someone who has not been pulled over for driving through the wrong neighbourhood.
      - MichaelMoser123 10y ago
        Did Obama help to initiate any tangible change with respect to norms and institutions? What kind of changes happened in the inner cities during the past eight years? [I am an outside observer who really doesn't know]
- v64 10y ago
  I agree with you, Romney has been relatively much more sane than other Republicans. I would have even voted for him if he was able to run as Massachusetts Governor Romney and not Pandering to the Insane Right Wing Romney. But he's certainly an outlier among the present class of Republicans. I think the Republican Party's pro-life position to be discriminatory against women. No one can force you to be an organ donor. Even if donating your organs would save someone's life, you have autonomy over your body and you are allowed to decline to be an organ donor. How is abortion any different? Even if you could save the baby's life, a woman should have complete autonomy over her body, period. Immigration is a huge issue, and I really thought the GOP was turning the corner on it, but it's all fallen apart since the GOP decided it would rather pander to an angry white base. Hopefully Trump will lose big and the GOP will actually follow the research they did in 2012. You sound like a reasonable person. I agree that wage discrimination and police violence aren't black and white issues. I agree that SJWism stifles honest debate. But I believe that climate change is real. I believe that marijuana has medicinal benefits and that the War on Drugs has been a colossal waste. I believe that religion has no place in government or political discourse. I believe that it doesn't matter what your sexual orientation or gender identity is. These aren't partisan issues in my mind; it's reality. Romney seems to understand this. But I'm from East Texas, and I know for every one of him, there's a dozen Louie Gohmerts. The GOP needs to get its shit together and jettison the insane branch of its tent before we end up with a de facto one party political system.
  - cb18 10y ago
    No one can force you to be an organ donor. Even if donating your organs would save someone's life, you have autonomy over your body and you are allowed to decline to be an organ donor. How is abortion any different? An organ is a component of a body. A baby is an entire human life form. You can't take an organ out of a body and have it grow up to be a poet or an astronaut. If a baby in the womb is simply "a woman's body," what about the 50% of genetic material from the father? I think the Republican Party's pro-life position to be discriminatory against women. How is it discriminatory against women? Women are the only sex that gestate. Opponents of abortion simply feel that much abortion is highly questionable ethically and feel that a society's treatment of the weakest and most defenseless among them speaks much about the character of their society. If men gestated they'd feel the same way. In modern society women do have complete autonomous control over their bodies in determining whether or not to become pregnant.
- andrepd 10y ago
  >SJWism is a cancer on Western civilization and it's one of the most pressing problems we face, because it prevents us from having honest conversations about any other problem. Debates these days always devolve into accusations of racism/sexism/"ableism", or whatever the latest boogeyman "ism" is. Maybe if you look outside your bubble aka in the internet you can come to realise in the real world this isn't nearly a big and widespread of a problem as some people make it out to be.
  - marcoperaza 10y ago
    >Maybe if you look outside your bubble aka in the internet you can come to realise in the real world this isn't nearly a big and widespread of a problem as some people make it out to be. Ah, but it was in meatspace that I became alarmed by them. I saw them ruin my alma mater, go after freedom of association, smear everyone who dared oppose them racist. I saw the spinelessness of leaders who instead of fighting back would just capitulate. I saw the Obama administration embrace their cause and turn college sexual assault tribunals into modern Salem witch trials, where a mere accusation is enough to ruin a life forever. This has spread beyond academia. I saw what they did to Brendan Eich in Mozilla, I saw the chill that has set in among my conservative friends, who dare not speak their opinions lest they be outcast from their industries. Maybe it's you who needs to step out of whatever bubble you're in.
    - breatheoften 10y ago
      You suggest that the mechanism by which honesty is removed from debate is by dishonest application of a highly sensitive mechanism for measuring social missteps. This does occur in real life scenarios but you are wrong to attribute SJWism as the cause for the lack of honesty in debate. The dishonesty did not get applied to the situation as a result of the existence of social justice causes -- it got added because of the nature of tribal political blocks. Removing social justice issues won't remove the effects of tribal motivations from the debate. Furthermore, your position is self inconsistent -- any attempt to wield your highly sensitive SJWism sensor will lead to the same variety of dishonesty that you claim of others holding similar sensors for other social topics. You are right that there are specific instances where tribally motivated groups explicitly misuse social arguments in a way that disadvantages their opponents -- you are wrong to imply that all occurrences of disadvantage based on this pattern are misuse.
cderwin 10y ago
For what it's worth, most HNers would be considered part of the "elite" (college-educated, a good portion have graduate degrees, employed and in the top 10% of the income bracket) by most people out there. So it makes sense that people on HN would support the policy of other elites in general.

by v64 10y ago

The Republican Party has failed to field a credible candidate for quite some time. If you believe in science and equal rights for women and minorities, those damn "elites" are all we have.

marcoperaza 10y ago

Mitt Romney was a very good candidate, except for his ultimate lack of fight. If you really believe that women and minorities don't have equal rights, then I can only urge you to dig a little deeper. Gender wage discrimination is a made-up problem, the statistics that you hear don't control for career choice, hours-worked, positions-sought, etc. The problem with our police force is that it's not professionalized once you get below the federal level. Police are too aggressive and quick to use force, but it's not a racial issue. SJWism is a cancer on Western civilization and it's one of the most pressing problems we face, because it prevents us from having honest conversations about any other problem. Debates these days always devolve into accusations of racism/sexism/"ableism", or whatever the latest boogeyman "ism" is.

germinalphrase 10y ago
Are you saying that race/racism does not have a meaningful effect on a person's opportunities in life?
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  Race does. There's no doubt that being born into a inner-city black community is a devastating hand to be dealt. Such children are likely to be raised by single mothers, surrounded by violent crime, in schools with rampant gang activity, and in a culture that devalues success as an act of racial betrayal. But racism is not a significant factor these days. In fact, minorities who do escape the fatalism of these communities are advantaged by widespread affirmative action, not just in school admissions, but in hiring, business loans, professional recognition, etc.
  - scum_master 10y ago
    I disagree. The reason that being born into an inner city black community is a devastating hand is precisely because of racism. Race does not exist in a vacuum. Look at the legislation that makes possession a crime. Look at the way selective enforcement results in blacks being over represented in prison systems. Look at the way the urban school districts are underfunded. You can pretend that the system is not racist, but when one racial group suffers disproportionately from legislation that is regressive, unfair and has not been repealed or changed since the era when Jim Crow was wakking, you have a racist system. We can put feel good bandaids over some college admission laws and we can even elect a black president, but until we fundamentally rework the laws and institutions of this country, we cannot call racism dead. That is the opinion of someone who has not been pulled over for driving through the wrong neighbourhood.
    - MichaelMoser123 10y ago
      Did Obama help to initiate any tangible change with respect to norms and institutions? What kind of changes happened in the inner cities during the past eight years? [I am an outside observer who really doesn't know]
v64 10y ago
I agree with you, Romney has been relatively much more sane than other Republicans. I would have even voted for him if he was able to run as Massachusetts Governor Romney and not Pandering to the Insane Right Wing Romney. But he's certainly an outlier among the present class of Republicans. I think the Republican Party's pro-life position to be discriminatory against women. No one can force you to be an organ donor. Even if donating your organs would save someone's life, you have autonomy over your body and you are allowed to decline to be an organ donor. How is abortion any different? Even if you could save the baby's life, a woman should have complete autonomy over her body, period. Immigration is a huge issue, and I really thought the GOP was turning the corner on it, but it's all fallen apart since the GOP decided it would rather pander to an angry white base. Hopefully Trump will lose big and the GOP will actually follow the research they did in 2012. You sound like a reasonable person. I agree that wage discrimination and police violence aren't black and white issues. I agree that SJWism stifles honest debate. But I believe that climate change is real. I believe that marijuana has medicinal benefits and that the War on Drugs has been a colossal waste. I believe that religion has no place in government or political discourse. I believe that it doesn't matter what your sexual orientation or gender identity is. These aren't partisan issues in my mind; it's reality. Romney seems to understand this. But I'm from East Texas, and I know for every one of him, there's a dozen Louie Gohmerts. The GOP needs to get its shit together and jettison the insane branch of its tent before we end up with a de facto one party political system.
- cb18 10y ago
  No one can force you to be an organ donor. Even if donating your organs would save someone's life, you have autonomy over your body and you are allowed to decline to be an organ donor. How is abortion any different? An organ is a component of a body. A baby is an entire human life form. You can't take an organ out of a body and have it grow up to be a poet or an astronaut. If a baby in the womb is simply "a woman's body," what about the 50% of genetic material from the father? I think the Republican Party's pro-life position to be discriminatory against women. How is it discriminatory against women? Women are the only sex that gestate. Opponents of abortion simply feel that much abortion is highly questionable ethically and feel that a society's treatment of the weakest and most defenseless among them speaks much about the character of their society. If men gestated they'd feel the same way. In modern society women do have complete autonomous control over their bodies in determining whether or not to become pregnant.
andrepd 10y ago
>SJWism is a cancer on Western civilization and it's one of the most pressing problems we face, because it prevents us from having honest conversations about any other problem. Debates these days always devolve into accusations of racism/sexism/"ableism", or whatever the latest boogeyman "ism" is. Maybe if you look outside your bubble aka in the internet you can come to realise in the real world this isn't nearly a big and widespread of a problem as some people make it out to be.
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  >Maybe if you look outside your bubble aka in the internet you can come to realise in the real world this isn't nearly a big and widespread of a problem as some people make it out to be. Ah, but it was in meatspace that I became alarmed by them. I saw them ruin my alma mater, go after freedom of association, smear everyone who dared oppose them racist. I saw the spinelessness of leaders who instead of fighting back would just capitulate. I saw the Obama administration embrace their cause and turn college sexual assault tribunals into modern Salem witch trials, where a mere accusation is enough to ruin a life forever. This has spread beyond academia. I saw what they did to Brendan Eich in Mozilla, I saw the chill that has set in among my conservative friends, who dare not speak their opinions lest they be outcast from their industries. Maybe it's you who needs to step out of whatever bubble you're in.
  - breatheoften 10y ago
    You suggest that the mechanism by which honesty is removed from debate is by dishonest application of a highly sensitive mechanism for measuring social missteps. This does occur in real life scenarios but you are wrong to attribute SJWism as the cause for the lack of honesty in debate. The dishonesty did not get applied to the situation as a result of the existence of social justice causes -- it got added because of the nature of tribal political blocks. Removing social justice issues won't remove the effects of tribal motivations from the debate. Furthermore, your position is self inconsistent -- any attempt to wield your highly sensitive SJWism sensor will lead to the same variety of dishonesty that you claim of others holding similar sensors for other social topics. You are right that there are specific instances where tribally motivated groups explicitly misuse social arguments in a way that disadvantages their opponents -- you are wrong to imply that all occurrences of disadvantage based on this pattern are misuse.

cderwin 10y ago

For what it's worth, most HNers would be considered part of the "elite" (college-educated, a good portion have graduate degrees, employed and in the top 10% of the income bracket) by most people out there. So it makes sense that people on HN would support the policy of other elites in general.