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>Oh but we do have communities, and we do talk to actual people (also about politics!) No, we don't. Communities have bonds. Seeing facebook spam is not the

>Oh but we do have communities, and we do talk to actual people (also about politics!) No, we don't. Communities have bonds. Seeing facebook spam is not the same as talking to a person, and joining a group of people who post likeminded facebook spam is not a community. It just scratches the same instinctual itch as a community. >Blame the invention Blame has nothing to do with it. Understanding how and why people control information to manipulate the public and undermine democracy is important. Trying to blame dead people for technology they invented is not.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
> No, we don't. Communities have bonds. Seeing facebook spam is not the same as talking to a person, and joining a group of people who post likeminded facebook spam is not a community. It just scratches the same instinctual itch as a community. You and I may be using Facebook differently. I'm not thinking about random Facebook groups and news feeds of people you don't even remember. But e.g. for me, there are people with whom, due to temporal and geographical constraints, Facebook (both site and Messenger) is the primary means of communication, and said communication is frequent and often deep. It's just another tool, not unlike the phone or telegram or paper mail. > Understanding how and why people control information to manipulate the public and undermine democracy is important. How: with free speech. Why: because they have goals they want to achieve. This actually is democracy working as designed - people being free to bullshit one another. The hope might have been that bullshitting from different actors will cancel out, but that doesn't generally work due to, among other things, simple randomness.
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  Keeping in touch with your family is not a community. And no, this is not democracy working as designed. Democracy as designed required access to information. This is why hearing everyone was important. You do not hear the voices in your community now, you hear a curated selection of voices intended to give you an impression they want you to get.
  - ZoF 10y ago
    Yep, not to mention our species didn't evolve under the constraint that all communication will be forever recorded. The nature of social media, especially when it isn't (at least)pseudonymous is such that all statements are forever a part of the public record. It's lead to a culture of going out of your way not to offend anyone(especially for facebook where your literal identity is tied to it). The end result is a bunch of virtue signalling and oftentimes dis-honest but politically correct dialogue.
- alanwatts 10y ago
  >This actually is democracy working as designed - people being free to bullshit one another They aren't free to bullshit one another. Facebook, Google, and co. regularly censor their users.
- wutbrodo 10y ago
  > You and I may be using Facebook differently. This is almost certainly the case. I feel like much of the time when people confidently generalize (on HN and elsewhere) about "how everybody uses Facebook", they end up talking past each other because there are just vastly different patterns of usage that you never have occasion to get exposed to (given that your friend group is more likely to have usage patterns similar to your own). I once got downvoted pretty heavily on HN for responding to someone talking about removing their Facebook friends that they don't know by asking "Is this something that people do? Friend people that they've never met or spoken to?". Apparently that's totally a thing, but I never would've known
  - MustardTiger 10y ago
    It may be the case, or it may not. Since we're not discussing how we use facebook, it is both unknown and irrelevant. We're talking about how facebook uses us, not at all the same thing. Facebook curates what you see no matter how you use facebook.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

> No, we don't. Communities have bonds. Seeing facebook spam is not the same as talking to a person, and joining a group of people who post likeminded facebook spam is not a community. It just scratches the same instinctual itch as a community. You and I may be using Facebook differently. I'm not thinking about random Facebook groups and news feeds of people you don't even remember. But e.g. for me, there are people with whom, due to temporal and geographical constraints, Facebook (both site and Messenger) is the primary means of communication, and said communication is frequent and often deep. It's just another tool, not unlike the phone or telegram or paper mail. > Understanding how and why people control information to manipulate the public and undermine democracy is important. How: with free speech. Why: because they have goals they want to achieve. This actually is democracy working as designed - people being free to bullshit one another. The hope might have been that bullshitting from different actors will cancel out, but that doesn't generally work due to, among other things, simple randomness.

MustardTiger 10y ago
Keeping in touch with your family is not a community. And no, this is not democracy working as designed. Democracy as designed required access to information. This is why hearing everyone was important. You do not hear the voices in your community now, you hear a curated selection of voices intended to give you an impression they want you to get.
- ZoF 10y ago
  Yep, not to mention our species didn't evolve under the constraint that all communication will be forever recorded. The nature of social media, especially when it isn't (at least)pseudonymous is such that all statements are forever a part of the public record. It's lead to a culture of going out of your way not to offend anyone(especially for facebook where your literal identity is tied to it). The end result is a bunch of virtue signalling and oftentimes dis-honest but politically correct dialogue.
alanwatts 10y ago
>This actually is democracy working as designed - people being free to bullshit one another They aren't free to bullshit one another. Facebook, Google, and co. regularly censor their users.
wutbrodo 10y ago
> You and I may be using Facebook differently. This is almost certainly the case. I feel like much of the time when people confidently generalize (on HN and elsewhere) about "how everybody uses Facebook", they end up talking past each other because there are just vastly different patterns of usage that you never have occasion to get exposed to (given that your friend group is more likely to have usage patterns similar to your own). I once got downvoted pretty heavily on HN for responding to someone talking about removing their Facebook friends that they don't know by asking "Is this something that people do? Friend people that they've never met or spoken to?". Apparently that's totally a thing, but I never would've known
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  It may be the case, or it may not. Since we're not discussing how we use facebook, it is both unknown and irrelevant. We're talking about how facebook uses us, not at all the same thing. Facebook curates what you see no matter how you use facebook.