4 ms·

Looking out for other people without those people actually being offended is a bit silly though. The ultra PC crowd seems to have taken it upon themselves to de

by hueving 10y ago

Looking out for other people without those people actually being offended is a bit silly though. The ultra PC crowd seems to have taken it upon themselves to decide what words are offensive without the 'victims' actually caring about the offensive word in the first place. These scenarios seem to be white people deciding what words other white people are allowed to use to describe cultures, people, nationalities, ethnicities, etc. Would you chide an Asian group running a store with 'Orient' in the name?[1] If not, why the hypocrisy? 1. http://orientwatchusa.com http://orientwatchusa.com

astrodust 10y ago
It's like if someone calls a girl "bitch" in what should be polite conversation you do have a right to say "no", that's not cool. This is no different. It's not "white people deciding" it's "white people finally acknowledging what these words mean". Whatever culture is the subject of a slur is naturally free to use that slur in any way they see fit. It does not automatically mean it's free for anyone to use.
- hueving 10y ago
  Acknowledging what to whom and on behalf of whom? I really want you to fill in the blanks for those 3 in the context of referring to Asia as 'the Orient'.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    You really want to test everyone's patience, don't you? "Oriental" became a slur just as "negro" did despite starting out as a more neutral term, though one in an age where many racial terminology was intrinsically loaded. If people of Asian descent want to call their shops something with "Orient" in it, it doesn't bother me. If someone who's not from that descent instead appropriates that culture and makes a mockery of it, that's not cool.
    - hueving 10y ago
      >You really want to test everyone's patience, don't you? Don't project your frustrations as a means to appeal to popularity. >"Oriental" became a slur According to whom? >just as "negro" No, not the same. "negro" is an offensive term to black people. >instead appropriates that culture and makes a mockery of it Can you explain to me in the quote from the document where the 'mockery' is? "The fact of the matter is that this bias, and its glaring ignorance of the real value of such a large amount of so-called "redundancy" continues to this very day, and thus continues to be a chafing-point between Orientals and misguided Westerners."
      - astrodust 10y ago
        Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but there's a lot of friction in very concrete cases of mockery like various sports team names and mascots, especially the Cleveland Indians. Their mascot is literally a caricature of an "indian". It's from a time when that sort of thing was acceptable because we didn't have to listen to such voices. We'd just sweep them off to reservations and strip them of their dignity and rights. Great times. So if you want to presume Oriental isn't a slur, go right ahead and keep using it. Just don't raise a fuss if someone comes to you and says "You might not want to use that word, it's got certain connotations."
        hueving 10y ago
        You haven't responded at all to my questions, which implies you have no response and there isn't any substance to your argument.
        astrodust 10y ago
        It's called I've written you off as someone who's tone deaf and there's no point in discussing this further. I'd rather explain the concept of color to dogs.
      - gugagore 10y ago
        > According to whom Wikipedia gives a summary with respect to the American use of the word (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient#American_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient#American_English): "John Kuo Wei Tchen, director of the Asian/Pacific/American Studies Program and Institute at New York University, said the basic critique of the term developed in U.S.A. in the 1970s. Tchen has said: "With the U.S.A. anti-war movement in the '60s and early '70s, many Asian Americans identified the term 'Oriental' with a Western process of racializing Asians as forever opposite 'others'."[10]"

by hueving 10y ago

astrodust 10y ago

It's like if someone calls a girl "bitch" in what should be polite conversation you do have a right to say "no", that's not cool. This is no different. It's not "white people deciding" it's "white people finally acknowledging what these words mean". Whatever culture is the subject of a slur is naturally free to use that slur in any way they see fit. It does not automatically mean it's free for anyone to use.

hueving 10y ago
Acknowledging what to whom and on behalf of whom? I really want you to fill in the blanks for those 3 in the context of referring to Asia as 'the Orient'.
- astrodust 10y ago
  You really want to test everyone's patience, don't you? "Oriental" became a slur just as "negro" did despite starting out as a more neutral term, though one in an age where many racial terminology was intrinsically loaded. If people of Asian descent want to call their shops something with "Orient" in it, it doesn't bother me. If someone who's not from that descent instead appropriates that culture and makes a mockery of it, that's not cool.
  - hueving 10y ago
    >You really want to test everyone's patience, don't you? Don't project your frustrations as a means to appeal to popularity. >"Oriental" became a slur According to whom? >just as "negro" No, not the same. "negro" is an offensive term to black people. >instead appropriates that culture and makes a mockery of it Can you explain to me in the quote from the document where the 'mockery' is? "The fact of the matter is that this bias, and its glaring ignorance of the real value of such a large amount of so-called "redundancy" continues to this very day, and thus continues to be a chafing-point between Orientals and misguided Westerners."
    - astrodust 10y ago
      Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but there's a lot of friction in very concrete cases of mockery like various sports team names and mascots, especially the Cleveland Indians. Their mascot is literally a caricature of an "indian". It's from a time when that sort of thing was acceptable because we didn't have to listen to such voices. We'd just sweep them off to reservations and strip them of their dignity and rights. Great times. So if you want to presume Oriental isn't a slur, go right ahead and keep using it. Just don't raise a fuss if someone comes to you and says "You might not want to use that word, it's got certain connotations."
      - hueving 10y ago
        You haven't responded at all to my questions, which implies you have no response and there isn't any substance to your argument.
        astrodust 10y ago
        It's called I've written you off as someone who's tone deaf and there's no point in discussing this further. I'd rather explain the concept of color to dogs.
    - gugagore 10y ago
      > According to whom Wikipedia gives a summary with respect to the American use of the word (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient#American_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient#American_English): "John Kuo Wei Tchen, director of the Asian/Pacific/American Studies Program and Institute at New York University, said the basic critique of the term developed in U.S.A. in the 1970s. Tchen has said: "With the U.S.A. anti-war movement in the '60s and early '70s, many Asian Americans identified the term 'Oriental' with a Western process of racializing Asians as forever opposite 'others'."[10]"