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The health effects of soy aren't well enough understood to say eating it has "pretty bad health effects". Some studies indicate it has positive health impact, e

The health effects of soy aren't well enough understood to say eating it has "pretty bad health effects". Some studies indicate it has positive health impact, even while some studies of specific things found in soy (and some theories about some specific things found in soy that don't have a lot of evidence to back them up, but they sound good). I think we should consider soy a suspect ingredient, but not an indicted one. I don't eat a lot of it, but I don't go far out of my way to avoid it, either. There's just too much history of soy consumption in Japan, and too much evidence indicating that Japanese people who eat soy have longer/healthier lives than those who never eat soy, that I think there's some stuff we just don't understand about it yet...making it more complicated than simple ingredients like simple sugars (that we know are generally bad) or fiber (that we know is generally good). I've gone back and forth on avoiding soy; these days I do prefer it fermented, but I'll eat non-fermented soy foods now and then without feeling like I'm taking a big health risk. Anyway, I don't necessarily disagree strongly with you, and there's probably a good argument that you should prefer fermented soy foods. But, I think the science is up in the air enough to make me think maybe the "smoking" gun really isn't. Also, black beans, and some other kinds of beans that are commonly consumed whole and without being fermented, contain more of some of the stuff that allegedly makes soy bad for you. So, if you're cutting out soy for those reasons, you also have to cut out black beans, among others. That doesn't feel like a good choice, to me...since those beans have so many healthy characteristics.

dogma1138 10y ago
I don't eat raw black beans either in large amounts ;) No issues with eating some soy, the issue is using soy as a food replacement for dairy, meat and wheat which results in consuming very large amounts of it. Also non-fermented soy products in Asia are also treated either with heat or chemically (acid, salts, enzymes) which reduces the amount of the risky stuff and are more safer for consumption. The problem in the west/mass produced food is where raw soy is used as a filler/replacement ingredient without proper consideration for pretreatment. Also FYI traditional chinese and japanese soy milk is boiled (for a fairly lenghty duration upto 30 min) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy_milk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy_milk, some western brands are not, an easy test to know if it was heat treated or not is to check how much does it foam, if it foams excessively it's likely unboiled cold pressed milk (tho silicone (e is intentional) might have been added as an anti-foaming agent, so in doubt heat it up for 10 min).
- grardb 10y ago
  I'm a bit confused about some of the stuff you're saying. Do you have any sources I could check out? I'm a vegetarian, and while I don't eat tons of soy, I'm genuinely interested because I haven't ever read about this. Soy haters usually talk about how I'm about to gain a second X chromosome or something. I've never heard of soy milk not being cooked. From what I've read, Silk definitely cooks their milk, and so does a company called Sunrich (which has at some point been what's behind Kirkland, Costco's brand)[1]. I haven't really looked into others, but I've read that in order to remove the "bean" taste from the finished product, it requires cooking, and the longer the better. Like you said, though, if it's cooked, it's fine. I personally make my own soy milk. You said in another reply that tofu and edemame are safe as well. According to Wikipedia, the soy protein in TVP is heated to 150-200ºC[2], which I assume is hot enough to "fix" the soy? Tempeh is fermented, so I guess that's okay too. I suppose that basically just leaves soy protein powder (and what they're used for, e.g. protein bars) and heavily processed meat substitutes? I don't know much about the former, but given that processed food in general is typically unhealthy, I'm left to wonder if soy is the main issue, or even an issue at all. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd1s179yWGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd1s179yWGM [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textured_vegetable_protein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textured_vegetable_protein

dogma1138 10y ago

I don't eat raw black beans either in large amounts ;) No issues with eating some soy, the issue is using soy as a food replacement for dairy, meat and wheat which results in consuming very large amounts of it. Also non-fermented soy products in Asia are also treated either with heat or chemically (acid, salts, enzymes) which reduces the amount of the risky stuff and are more safer for consumption. The problem in the west/mass produced food is where raw soy is used as a filler/replacement ingredient without proper consideration for pretreatment. Also FYI traditional chinese and japanese soy milk is boiled (for a fairly lenghty duration upto 30 min) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy_milk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy_milk, some western brands are not, an easy test to know if it was heat treated or not is to check how much does it foam, if it foams excessively it's likely unboiled cold pressed milk (tho silicone (e is intentional) might have been added as an anti-foaming agent, so in doubt heat it up for 10 min).

grardb 10y ago
I'm a bit confused about some of the stuff you're saying. Do you have any sources I could check out? I'm a vegetarian, and while I don't eat tons of soy, I'm genuinely interested because I haven't ever read about this. Soy haters usually talk about how I'm about to gain a second X chromosome or something. I've never heard of soy milk not being cooked. From what I've read, Silk definitely cooks their milk, and so does a company called Sunrich (which has at some point been what's behind Kirkland, Costco's brand)[1]. I haven't really looked into others, but I've read that in order to remove the "bean" taste from the finished product, it requires cooking, and the longer the better. Like you said, though, if it's cooked, it's fine. I personally make my own soy milk. You said in another reply that tofu and edemame are safe as well. According to Wikipedia, the soy protein in TVP is heated to 150-200ºC[2], which I assume is hot enough to "fix" the soy? Tempeh is fermented, so I guess that's okay too. I suppose that basically just leaves soy protein powder (and what they're used for, e.g. protein bars) and heavily processed meat substitutes? I don't know much about the former, but given that processed food in general is typically unhealthy, I'm left to wonder if soy is the main issue, or even an issue at all. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd1s179yWGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd1s179yWGM [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textured_vegetable_protein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textured_vegetable_protein