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Thread in Which DHH and Paul Graham Argue about Thiel's YC Position

42 points by exolymph 10y ago

bruceb 10y ago
First they came for the billionaires but I did not speak up because I was not a billionaire... But really this election has made we want to avoid the zealot supporters of both major canditates. Hold your ground Paul.
presidentender 10y ago
I am deeply unimpressed with DHH's position.
- bosdev 10y ago
  Can you give some more explanation of why?
  - whamlastxmas 10y ago
    He's implying we should retaliate against people because of their voting decisions, which is a hugely shitty thing to do. There is no black-and-white in politics, and someone who supports Trump doesn't mean they support literally everything Trump has ever said. But thanks to the divisive bullshit of this campaign, everyone hates each other.
    - evanelias 10y ago
      Not simply a voting decision. As DHH explained, "this is a man who's a Trump delegate! Keynote endorser at his convention! Political action and operative."
      - true_religion 10y ago
        I think most people who vote for Trump would be happy to be nominated as his delegate. All things aside, it is seen as a social honor to be a delegate.
    - rhizome 10y ago
      By invoking the Resistance, pg compared Trump to Hitler. DHH was merely probing where the line falls between Hitler and the other Nazis in that metaphor. DHH didn't bring up black and white, pg did.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cwisecarver 10y ago
I wouldn't kick Thiel out for his Trump support. I'd kick him out because he funded a proxy war against the media and the First Amendment.
bosdev 10y ago
- There is a difference between who you vote for, and you you vocally campaign for. He spoke at the convention, he didn't just share his views. - You have a right to say anything you want, but that doesn't mean you can't be fired for it. If Thiel agrees with Trump, and Trump is counter to the values of YC, maybe Thiel isn't right for YC. He's in a position of advising companies, probably sometimes privately, how does YC know his advice aligns with their values? Conversely: - We don't definitively know Trump has done anything more than be a bombastic creep, so anyone comparing supporting him to supporting Hitler or Stalin is going a little far.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  As much as I don't like trump, what I like even less are people suggesting you can or should be fired for voicing a political argument or an opinion. You are correct that technically you can be fired for what you say, but not when it's protected speech. You would not support some one being fired for voicing political opinions that you agree with, so this is not only illiberal but also quite likely hypocritical.
  - bosdev 10y ago
    Just to clarify, the position you have is you should only be able to be fired for your actions, not your beliefs (however widely communicated)? And, as an extension, the beliefs of it's members should never be taken to be the beliefs of an organization?
    - flukus 10y ago
      I think the position is (or at least mine is) that an organization should only be able to judge you for your actions on behalf of that organisation and that anything you do when not directly representing that organisation (like at a bar or posting on facebook) should have absolutely no bearing on your role at that organisation.
      - cwisecarver 10y ago
bisRepetita 10y ago
Interesting how this story has been kicked out from front page.
- bosdev 10y ago
  It's currently on the front page in the RSS feed: http://hnrankings.info/12689700/ http://hnrankings.info/12689700/ But it seems like you're right, they've killed it on the actual site.
  - pfg 10y ago
    "They" most likely being actual users flagging the submission, as happens often with political stories.
- sctb 10y ago
  The only ranking intervention on this specific post has been user flags.
meira 10y ago
This thread blew my mind. Initially, I thought DHH was just been a duchbag as always, but then he used very good arguments. I hope to not be banned, but pg has very weak arguments in this matter, and it is a very important one.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  He actually made very poor arguments to the point of not not even making one. Then he made things worse by literally invoking the post facebook/liberal Internet Godwin's Law by tieing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to this issue trying to bait Graham with a nonsensical argument. And the argument is nonsensical because nothing morally, ideologically or politically prevents one from being both supportive/attentive to the cause of the Palestinians seeking statehood while being against BDS or any other boycott movement because boycotts by definition prevent any type of dialog and make any issue considerably harder or near impossible to resolve.
  - meira 10y ago
    Só pg should not also boycott Trump and their supported? No "join the resistance" at all?

42 points by exolymph 10y ago

First they came for the billionaires but I did not speak up because I was not a billionaire... But really this election has made we want to avoid the zealot supporters of both major canditates. Hold your ground Paul.

presidentender 10y ago

I am deeply unimpressed with DHH's position.

bosdev 10y ago
Can you give some more explanation of why?
- whamlastxmas 10y ago
  He's implying we should retaliate against people because of their voting decisions, which is a hugely shitty thing to do. There is no black-and-white in politics, and someone who supports Trump doesn't mean they support literally everything Trump has ever said. But thanks to the divisive bullshit of this campaign, everyone hates each other.
  - evanelias 10y ago
    Not simply a voting decision. As DHH explained, "this is a man who's a Trump delegate! Keynote endorser at his convention! Political action and operative."
    - true_religion 10y ago
      I think most people who vote for Trump would be happy to be nominated as his delegate. All things aside, it is seen as a social honor to be a delegate.
  - rhizome 10y ago
    By invoking the Resistance, pg compared Trump to Hitler. DHH was merely probing where the line falls between Hitler and the other Nazis in that metaphor. DHH didn't bring up black and white, pg did.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

cwisecarver 10y ago

I wouldn't kick Thiel out for his Trump support. I'd kick him out because he funded a proxy war against the media and the First Amendment.

bosdev 10y ago

- There is a difference between who you vote for, and you you vocally campaign for. He spoke at the convention, he didn't just share his views. - You have a right to say anything you want, but that doesn't mean you can't be fired for it. If Thiel agrees with Trump, and Trump is counter to the values of YC, maybe Thiel isn't right for YC. He's in a position of advising companies, probably sometimes privately, how does YC know his advice aligns with their values? Conversely: - We don't definitively know Trump has done anything more than be a bombastic creep, so anyone comparing supporting him to supporting Hitler or Stalin is going a little far.

dogma1138 10y ago
As much as I don't like trump, what I like even less are people suggesting you can or should be fired for voicing a political argument or an opinion. You are correct that technically you can be fired for what you say, but not when it's protected speech. You would not support some one being fired for voicing political opinions that you agree with, so this is not only illiberal but also quite likely hypocritical.
- bosdev 10y ago
  Just to clarify, the position you have is you should only be able to be fired for your actions, not your beliefs (however widely communicated)? And, as an extension, the beliefs of it's members should never be taken to be the beliefs of an organization?
  - flukus 10y ago
    I think the position is (or at least mine is) that an organization should only be able to judge you for your actions on behalf of that organisation and that anything you do when not directly representing that organisation (like at a bar or posting on facebook) should have absolutely no bearing on your role at that organisation.
    - cwisecarver 10y ago

bisRepetita 10y ago

Interesting how this story has been kicked out from front page.

bosdev 10y ago
It's currently on the front page in the RSS feed: http://hnrankings.info/12689700/ http://hnrankings.info/12689700/ But it seems like you're right, they've killed it on the actual site.
- pfg 10y ago
  "They" most likely being actual users flagging the submission, as happens often with political stories.
sctb 10y ago
The only ranking intervention on this specific post has been user flags.

meira 10y ago

This thread blew my mind. Initially, I thought DHH was just been a duchbag as always, but then he used very good arguments. I hope to not be banned, but pg has very weak arguments in this matter, and it is a very important one.

dogma1138 10y ago
He actually made very poor arguments to the point of not not even making one. Then he made things worse by literally invoking the post facebook/liberal Internet Godwin's Law by tieing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to this issue trying to bait Graham with a nonsensical argument. And the argument is nonsensical because nothing morally, ideologically or politically prevents one from being both supportive/attentive to the cause of the Palestinians seeking statehood while being against BDS or any other boycott movement because boycotts by definition prevent any type of dialog and make any issue considerably harder or near impossible to resolve.
- meira 10y ago
  Só pg should not also boycott Trump and their supported? No "join the resistance" at all?