5 ms·

Cool feature, though it'd be nice if Signal fixed the message delay and message dropping problem. But Signal uses the proprietary GCM service (because "it's imp

by cyphar 10y ago

Cool feature, though it'd be nice if Signal fixed the message delay and message dropping problem. But Signal uses the proprietary GCM service (because "it's impossible to do message sending correctly, so let's force people to use proprietary software") so they probably can't fix it...

uph 10y ago
No one is forcing you to use proprietary software. See this comment from moxie https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10665520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10665520 Using GCM is only a problem for people running a custom Android ROM without Google Play Services. Using GCM doesn't make Signal less private. Google doesn't see any data via gcm, it's just a tickle. If you want push messages, you gotta use a push network. https://twitter.com/whispersystems/status/695399112833761283 https://twitter.com/whispersystems/status/695399112833761283 Feel free to help out with code https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/43 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/43 or money https://www.bountysource.com/issues/35722527-create-proper-pull-request-to-add-libresignal-s-websocket-support-to-ows-signal https://www.bountysource.com/issues/35722527-create-proper-p... if using Signal without GCM is important to you. If the only thing that the remaining people here want out of LibreSignal is a websocket-only solution and gmscore isn't an option for whatever reason, I would consider a clean, well written, and well tested PR for websocket-only support in Signal. I expect it to have high battery consumption and an unreliable user experience, but would be fine with it if it comes with a warning and only runs in the absence of play services. However, I also realize that still won't help people that are trying to build a Google-free experience on Google's platform https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/127 https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/127 , since we still don't have the things we need https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/127#issuecomment-21763521 https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/127#... to be comfortable distributing software outside of Play. https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-226646872 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco... Considering how a small minority complain about this everytime Signal is mentioned you'd think they'd do something about it, but take a look at that Bountysource link and you'll see 8 backers. Guess complaining is easier.
- kuschku 10y ago
  Actually, Moxie has threatened to shut LibreSignal down if they allow LibreSignal users to message normal Signal users, and refused to even discuss alternative solutions. He also uses the GCM library from Google, which pulls in several analytics libraries into the APK, so "Using GCM doesn't make Signal less private." is objectively false. (And in addition to that, Moxie even refuses to allow any distribution that doesn’t come with full analytics, which is extremely user hostile.) > Guess complaining is easier. No, it’s easier to use XMPP than to fix a system that’s broken by design like Signal. EDIT: Seriously? Downvotes for criticising publicly documented user-hostile behaviour from Moxie? Fuck this, the discussion culture here really got worse than even Reddit.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    Downvoting this comment without offering a counterpoint is very bad etiquette. Can someone provide a counterargument? Otherwise it's just pretty much censorship.
    - mentat 10y ago
      I do not think "censorship" means what you think it means. Censorship would be moderators deleting something. Making claims without citations is fully in play to downvote.
      - StavrosK 10y ago
        I guess you're right about the censorship part, but still, just downvoting comments without replying is not useful to anyone. The comments above that reply clarifying the situation are much more informative.
  - Jarwain 10y ago
    Could it be because some of your information is spun/misleading? LibreSignal was abandoned according to their github, first of all. Secondly, the issue is that OWS doesn't want "others" using the servers that they own and maintain for Signal.[1] As far as I understand, they disapprove of people using the name Signal or TextSecure or Redphone for their forks, due to confusion by users who believe that the fork is actually the app released by OWS. He doesn't explicitly say whether "LibreSignal" is okay, but would prefer for a namechange to reduce confusion. Afaik, he also encourages people who don't like the GCM build in Signal to swap it out with the rewritten open source one and build with that. [1]https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217231557 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco...

by cyphar 10y ago

uph 10y ago

No one is forcing you to use proprietary software. See this comment from moxie https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10665520 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10665520 Using GCM is only a problem for people running a custom Android ROM without Google Play Services. Using GCM doesn't make Signal less private. Google doesn't see any data via gcm, it's just a tickle. If you want push messages, you gotta use a push network. https://twitter.com/whispersystems/status/695399112833761283 https://twitter.com/whispersystems/status/695399112833761283 Feel free to help out with code https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/43 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/43 or money https://www.bountysource.com/issues/35722527-create-proper-pull-request-to-add-libresignal-s-websocket-support-to-ows-signal https://www.bountysource.com/issues/35722527-create-proper-p... if using Signal without GCM is important to you. If the only thing that the remaining people here want out of LibreSignal is a websocket-only solution and gmscore isn't an option for whatever reason, I would consider a clean, well written, and well tested PR for websocket-only support in Signal. I expect it to have high battery consumption and an unreliable user experience, but would be fine with it if it comes with a warning and only runs in the absence of play services. However, I also realize that still won't help people that are trying to build a Google-free experience on Google's platform https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/127 https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/127 , since we still don't have the things we need https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/127#issuecomment-21763521 https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Android/issues/127#... to be comfortable distributing software outside of Play. https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-226646872 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco... Considering how a small minority complain about this everytime Signal is mentioned you'd think they'd do something about it, but take a look at that Bountysource link and you'll see 8 backers. Guess complaining is easier.

kuschku 10y ago
Actually, Moxie has threatened to shut LibreSignal down if they allow LibreSignal users to message normal Signal users, and refused to even discuss alternative solutions. He also uses the GCM library from Google, which pulls in several analytics libraries into the APK, so "Using GCM doesn't make Signal less private." is objectively false. (And in addition to that, Moxie even refuses to allow any distribution that doesn’t come with full analytics, which is extremely user hostile.) > Guess complaining is easier. No, it’s easier to use XMPP than to fix a system that’s broken by design like Signal. EDIT: Seriously? Downvotes for criticising publicly documented user-hostile behaviour from Moxie? Fuck this, the discussion culture here really got worse than even Reddit.
- StavrosK 10y ago
  Downvoting this comment without offering a counterpoint is very bad etiquette. Can someone provide a counterargument? Otherwise it's just pretty much censorship.
  - mentat 10y ago
    I do not think "censorship" means what you think it means. Censorship would be moderators deleting something. Making claims without citations is fully in play to downvote.
    - StavrosK 10y ago
      I guess you're right about the censorship part, but still, just downvoting comments without replying is not useful to anyone. The comments above that reply clarifying the situation are much more informative.
- Jarwain 10y ago
  Could it be because some of your information is spun/misleading? LibreSignal was abandoned according to their github, first of all. Secondly, the issue is that OWS doesn't want "others" using the servers that they own and maintain for Signal.[1] As far as I understand, they disapprove of people using the name Signal or TextSecure or Redphone for their forks, due to confusion by users who believe that the fork is actually the app released by OWS. He doesn't explicitly say whether "LibreSignal" is okay, but would prefer for a namechange to reduce confusion. Afaik, he also encourages people who don't like the GCM build in Signal to swap it out with the rewritten open source one and build with that. [1]https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217231557 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco...