4 ms·

There are much older subways (London, Paris and Madrid come to mind) that are as large and have managed to stay modern, albeit with slightly fewer stations (but

There are much older subways (London, Paris and Madrid come to mind) that are as large and have managed to stay modern, albeit with slightly fewer stations (but longer networks). The NYC is subway is old, but it's not like they haven't had any time to work on it. From what I've read, it's mostly attributable to mismanagement at the MTA — misdirected funds, union squabbles, lack of political will, lack of imagination, outright corruption. NYC is admittedly extremely time-consuming (and therefore expensive) to dig, but all the things that could have modernized the subway and made more it convenient and accessible wouldn't require digging more tunnels. The other systemic problems — lack of modern signaling, lack of parallel tunnels — are harder and more expensive to solve, especially without disrupting commuters.

rayiner 10y ago
The D.C. Metro is equally badly managed, if not worse. The only reason it's better in some ways,[1] is because it started with a 70-year technology advantage. [1] And it's worse in many ways too, such as the lack of express tracks.
RockyMcNuts 10y ago
ummh... have you ever been on any of those subways? Paris is a marvel for its density and well-planned routes. But some of the lines are more like underground light rail compared to e.g. the Lexington line, which on its own carries like 1/3 of the passengers of Paris or London. The London Tube trains I've been on felt like a subway for midgets compared to the 10-foot wide BMT trains. They stop running at night. One of the only times I've missed a flight was due to a London Tube delay. The new Chinese subways really put the US to shame, quiet, double glass doors, video screens everywhere, cell phones work everywhere, very cheap, very dense and very crowded. The NY subway is pretty reliable and fast. Apps like Moovit and Citymapper make it pretty easy to get where you want as quickly as possible. Train Time coverage and wifi coverage could be better, the latter is improving. It could be nicer but all I can say is if you think the New York subway is bad now, you should have tried it in the 70s. Edit: I'd add that an Oyster-type payment system would be nice. Also, a couple of MTA alumni have led systems in London, Hong Kong, Toronto, other cities, so NY is probably not at the very bottom in best practices. Bottom line is you can get anywhere quickly and reliably at all hours, if not always in luxurious style, and you don't need a car to live here. So I'll take it, until your driverless taxi can deal with NY traffic and get there faster.
- jgalt212 10y ago
  > The London Tube trains I've been on felt like a subway for midgets compared to the 10-foot wide BMT trains. Indeed, taking luggage on the tube during rush hour is a truly painful experience.
  - pm215 10y ago
    Taking luggage on any mass transit system during rush hour is likely to be a painful experience...
    - jgalt212 10y ago
      Yes, that's correct, but taking luggage on the Tube during off hours is just regular painful.
- robotmlg 10y ago
  Fun fact: The Lexington avenue line carries as many passengers in a day as the entire DC Metro
- ucaetano 10y ago
  Paris has well-planned routes? Not at all! Take line 12 for example, a crooked, slow line with stations sometimes a single block apart. There are no escalators or elevators except for a few stations, and the trains rattle and shake as much as NYC. Not to mention the narrow trains running on standard gauge, created like that on purpose so the federal government wouldn't take it over and run their own trains. Line 14 is the only one which would qualify as a modern transportation system.
  - RockyMcNuts 10y ago
    anywhere you go in Paris, you're a few minutes walk from a métro station...NYC subway mostly goes down main transportation axes, there are pretty big deserts where you have a very long walk or take a bus to the subway, even in Manhattan but especially in outer boroughs.
- 10y ago
masklinn 10y ago
WRT NYC, isn't there also that it's one of the very few (if not the only) 24/7 metro system? London's Night Tube is a very recent thing (August 2016) and only covers a few lines, Madrid Metro closes at 0130 and reopens at 0600, Paris Metro closes at 0115 and reopens at 0530 (with exceptions: 5 lines are open all night on new year's eve and 2 festivals, and since 2007 it closes at 0215 on fridays, saturdays and holiday eves)

rayiner 10y ago

The D.C. Metro is equally badly managed, if not worse. The only reason it's better in some ways,[1] is because it started with a 70-year technology advantage. [1] And it's worse in many ways too, such as the lack of express tracks.

RockyMcNuts 10y ago

ummh... have you ever been on any of those subways? Paris is a marvel for its density and well-planned routes. But some of the lines are more like underground light rail compared to e.g. the Lexington line, which on its own carries like 1/3 of the passengers of Paris or London. The London Tube trains I've been on felt like a subway for midgets compared to the 10-foot wide BMT trains. They stop running at night. One of the only times I've missed a flight was due to a London Tube delay. The new Chinese subways really put the US to shame, quiet, double glass doors, video screens everywhere, cell phones work everywhere, very cheap, very dense and very crowded. The NY subway is pretty reliable and fast. Apps like Moovit and Citymapper make it pretty easy to get where you want as quickly as possible. Train Time coverage and wifi coverage could be better, the latter is improving. It could be nicer but all I can say is if you think the New York subway is bad now, you should have tried it in the 70s. Edit: I'd add that an Oyster-type payment system would be nice. Also, a couple of MTA alumni have led systems in London, Hong Kong, Toronto, other cities, so NY is probably not at the very bottom in best practices. Bottom line is you can get anywhere quickly and reliably at all hours, if not always in luxurious style, and you don't need a car to live here. So I'll take it, until your driverless taxi can deal with NY traffic and get there faster.

jgalt212 10y ago
> The London Tube trains I've been on felt like a subway for midgets compared to the 10-foot wide BMT trains. Indeed, taking luggage on the tube during rush hour is a truly painful experience.
- pm215 10y ago
  Taking luggage on any mass transit system during rush hour is likely to be a painful experience...
  - jgalt212 10y ago
    Yes, that's correct, but taking luggage on the Tube during off hours is just regular painful.
robotmlg 10y ago
Fun fact: The Lexington avenue line carries as many passengers in a day as the entire DC Metro
ucaetano 10y ago
Paris has well-planned routes? Not at all! Take line 12 for example, a crooked, slow line with stations sometimes a single block apart. There are no escalators or elevators except for a few stations, and the trains rattle and shake as much as NYC. Not to mention the narrow trains running on standard gauge, created like that on purpose so the federal government wouldn't take it over and run their own trains. Line 14 is the only one which would qualify as a modern transportation system.
- RockyMcNuts 10y ago
  anywhere you go in Paris, you're a few minutes walk from a métro station...NYC subway mostly goes down main transportation axes, there are pretty big deserts where you have a very long walk or take a bus to the subway, even in Manhattan but especially in outer boroughs.
10y ago

masklinn 10y ago

WRT NYC, isn't there also that it's one of the very few (if not the only) 24/7 metro system? London's Night Tube is a very recent thing (August 2016) and only covers a few lines, Madrid Metro closes at 0130 and reopens at 0600, Paris Metro closes at 0115 and reopens at 0530 (with exceptions: 5 lines are open all night on new year's eve and 2 festivals, and since 2007 it closes at 0215 on fridays, saturdays and holiday eves)