5 ms·

As someone who reads and writes thousands of developer resumes a year, the major problem I see is that people have a difficult time separating what is important

by fecak 10y ago

As someone who reads and writes thousands of developer resumes a year, the major problem I see is that people have a difficult time separating what is important from what isn't, and separating day-to-day responsibilities (which are typically understood from a job title) from unique and novel achievements. I don't know if this kind of tool solves that problem. Much of my work with resume clients is extracting what they do from them and then putting it into efficient words. Many people struggle with just explaining what they do. The other problem is that you have to understand that your reader often isn't someone with a highly technical background (or even a recruiting background), so you have to define yourself quickly in order to prevent the reader from misinterpreting who you are. If a reader is looking for a "Python Developer", it's best to refer to yourself that way on the resume. For senior level people length is often the issue - it's a highlight reel - not a biography. Anyone can get to 1-2 pages max.

gentleteblor 10y ago
This is why the resume endures despite it's many flaws (talked about this in some other comments). There needs to be a summarized, editorialized version of your "history" and that's what the resume does in a (semi) standardized format. The big thing for me is that this summarized/editorialized version shouldn't be what you (the one with the career) manage on a regular basis. You should have a source of truth that is far more comprehensive (and manageable) and which allows you to create this summary version easily. On another note...I've been writing a lot of web copy lately and I've started seeing a lot of similarities between good web copy and good resume copy. Resumes are marketing tools, and don't you forget it.
- fecak 10y ago
  It's all marketing really. Many of the devs who struggle the most have some difficulty giving themselves credit for things they've done - they're modest perhaps. I think when I write some of these resumes they are more accepting of them because it's me bragging about their accomplishments. Unfortunately in the resume writing game, there are lots of failed writers that were never involved in hiring. They are good writers but don't know the audience, so people end up paying substantial amounts for a nicely worded resume that doesn't result in interviews.
  - gentleteblor 10y ago
    > Many of the devs who struggle the most have some difficulty giving themselves credit for things they've done Ain't that the truth. I've been an engineer for a decade, I built a career app, I blog about career management, and i definitely still struggle with this. And you're right. It's not only about good writing. Writing a good resume is a specific skill. There are so many career specific factors that come into play (industry lingo/keywords, being able to quantify value etc), you can't just make it pretty.
  - piva00 10y ago
    I've just realised that I relate to this a lot. After 10 years in the industry I still have a hard time coming up with accomplishments for my CV as I really think most of them are team efforts, even when some of them have been designed or pushed by myself I can't view "me" as the sole responsible for something. I think being modest is a good trait overall just not so good for writing your own CVs.
3pt14159 10y ago
As I've gotten older my resumes have gotten shorter. The shortest resume is just your last name "Zuckerberg" or "Snowden". If you've achieved something impressive (sold a company, started a well known web framework, fixed some large horrible government or organizational process) it speaks for itself and the rest of it is just making sure you aren't a conartist, which an interview can easily handle.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  When I'm writing my resume, I generally chop off all but the last 10 or so years of my career, and then chop off anything else that gets me down to one page. When I'm reading them, I simply toss all but the first page into the trash. Nobody reads past the first page anyway. If you can't fit your resume onto one page, that's a communication red flag--you're not skilled at summarizing. It indicates you may have trouble doing senior-y things like presenting to execs and discussing your work cross-functionally, both of which require the ability to distill the main points from the details.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  > the rest of it is just making sure you aren't a conartist, which an interview can easily handle I would have thought that if there was one thing an interview was not suited to do, it would be detecting con artists. Isn't passing interviews their only core skill?
  - 3pt14159 10y ago
    Not for a useful interview. If you tell me you founded and sold a machine learning company but can't explain the pros and cons of using variance versus standard deviation then you didn't sell a machine learning company.
    - thaumasiotes 10y ago
      Hm. I have not founded or sold a machine learning company, or even studied the field. But either of those quantities fully determines the other, so I'd really hope that, if they're part of the model, they'd be exactly equivalent to a learning system. Do you mean for measuring goodness of fit between a prediction and the known truth in training data? If you want to assess the presence of knowledge, give a test rather than an interview. The interview is just a way to make it easier for the con artist to snow you.
emodendroket 10y ago
That sounds like issues of content more than form.
- fecak 10y ago
  Right. My point was that a new form of delivery doesn't help if the content isn't "right".
mountainplus 10y ago
Although I'm not intending to derail the thread, I'm curious what resources or techniques would you recommend to get better at this?
- fecak 10y ago
  If you're writing your own resume, I'd maybe sit down every six months to a year and think about things you accomplished, and write then down (problem solved, how it was solved, data if possible, impact, etc.). At some point you'll have a list of accomplishments, and you can select the more impressive of them to put on the resume. (As an aside - this also helps with career stagnation. If you're having a hard time deciding what to write, it's time to move on. Once you've got some accomplishments, refactor to the most efficient use of words. How can I say everything necessary is as few words as possible? This is where a professional might come in handy if you're not a good writer. You can run your accomplishments by a friend and say "which two or three are most worthy of a resume inclusion?" - gives insight into what is impressive. I think that covers most of it. The rest is mostly formatting and summarizing (if you choose to write a summary).
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    Good advice. I use my filed email threads to jog my memory, see whom I worked with or who's questions I answered.
  - mountainplus 10y ago
    Neat, thanks it's very much appreciated. I did some digging and except from re-posted articles and CV builders it seems like there are not many tools to help with this. Which surprises me a bit given that I'd think many struggle to be effective in something I consider crucial to be successful in your chosen field.

by fecak 10y ago

gentleteblor 10y ago

This is why the resume endures despite it's many flaws (talked about this in some other comments). There needs to be a summarized, editorialized version of your "history" and that's what the resume does in a (semi) standardized format. The big thing for me is that this summarized/editorialized version shouldn't be what you (the one with the career) manage on a regular basis. You should have a source of truth that is far more comprehensive (and manageable) and which allows you to create this summary version easily. On another note...I've been writing a lot of web copy lately and I've started seeing a lot of similarities between good web copy and good resume copy. Resumes are marketing tools, and don't you forget it.

fecak 10y ago
It's all marketing really. Many of the devs who struggle the most have some difficulty giving themselves credit for things they've done - they're modest perhaps. I think when I write some of these resumes they are more accepting of them because it's me bragging about their accomplishments. Unfortunately in the resume writing game, there are lots of failed writers that were never involved in hiring. They are good writers but don't know the audience, so people end up paying substantial amounts for a nicely worded resume that doesn't result in interviews.
- gentleteblor 10y ago
  > Many of the devs who struggle the most have some difficulty giving themselves credit for things they've done Ain't that the truth. I've been an engineer for a decade, I built a career app, I blog about career management, and i definitely still struggle with this. And you're right. It's not only about good writing. Writing a good resume is a specific skill. There are so many career specific factors that come into play (industry lingo/keywords, being able to quantify value etc), you can't just make it pretty.
- piva00 10y ago
  I've just realised that I relate to this a lot. After 10 years in the industry I still have a hard time coming up with accomplishments for my CV as I really think most of them are team efforts, even when some of them have been designed or pushed by myself I can't view "me" as the sole responsible for something. I think being modest is a good trait overall just not so good for writing your own CVs.

3pt14159 10y ago

As I've gotten older my resumes have gotten shorter. The shortest resume is just your last name "Zuckerberg" or "Snowden". If you've achieved something impressive (sold a company, started a well known web framework, fixed some large horrible government or organizational process) it speaks for itself and the rest of it is just making sure you aren't a conartist, which an interview can easily handle.

ryandrake 10y ago
When I'm writing my resume, I generally chop off all but the last 10 or so years of my career, and then chop off anything else that gets me down to one page. When I'm reading them, I simply toss all but the first page into the trash. Nobody reads past the first page anyway. If you can't fit your resume onto one page, that's a communication red flag--you're not skilled at summarizing. It indicates you may have trouble doing senior-y things like presenting to execs and discussing your work cross-functionally, both of which require the ability to distill the main points from the details.
thaumasiotes 10y ago
> the rest of it is just making sure you aren't a conartist, which an interview can easily handle I would have thought that if there was one thing an interview was not suited to do, it would be detecting con artists. Isn't passing interviews their only core skill?
- 3pt14159 10y ago
  Not for a useful interview. If you tell me you founded and sold a machine learning company but can't explain the pros and cons of using variance versus standard deviation then you didn't sell a machine learning company.
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    Hm. I have not founded or sold a machine learning company, or even studied the field. But either of those quantities fully determines the other, so I'd really hope that, if they're part of the model, they'd be exactly equivalent to a learning system. Do you mean for measuring goodness of fit between a prediction and the known truth in training data? If you want to assess the presence of knowledge, give a test rather than an interview. The interview is just a way to make it easier for the con artist to snow you.

emodendroket 10y ago

That sounds like issues of content more than form.

fecak 10y ago
Right. My point was that a new form of delivery doesn't help if the content isn't "right".

mountainplus 10y ago

Although I'm not intending to derail the thread, I'm curious what resources or techniques would you recommend to get better at this?

fecak 10y ago
If you're writing your own resume, I'd maybe sit down every six months to a year and think about things you accomplished, and write then down (problem solved, how it was solved, data if possible, impact, etc.). At some point you'll have a list of accomplishments, and you can select the more impressive of them to put on the resume. (As an aside - this also helps with career stagnation. If you're having a hard time deciding what to write, it's time to move on. Once you've got some accomplishments, refactor to the most efficient use of words. How can I say everything necessary is as few words as possible? This is where a professional might come in handy if you're not a good writer. You can run your accomplishments by a friend and say "which two or three are most worthy of a resume inclusion?" - gives insight into what is impressive. I think that covers most of it. The rest is mostly formatting and summarizing (if you choose to write a summary).
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  Good advice. I use my filed email threads to jog my memory, see whom I worked with or who's questions I answered.
- mountainplus 10y ago
  Neat, thanks it's very much appreciated. I did some digging and except from re-posted articles and CV builders it seems like there are not many tools to help with this. Which surprises me a bit given that I'd think many struggle to be effective in something I consider crucial to be successful in your chosen field.