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I never said anything about "all" or "most" men. I have no idea why everyone is replying as if I did. Everything I said is super general and is backed up with d

by calex 10y ago

I never said anything about "all" or "most" men. I have no idea why everyone is replying as if I did. Everything I said is super general and is backed up with data. Good for you for pulling it together. Seriously. I went the service industry to community college route myself.

MisterBastahrd 10y ago
... generalizations tend to imply all or most as a matter of course. It's why they're generalizations.
- ethanbond 10y ago
  She literally didn't even offer commentary on what any/many/all men do whatsoever.
  - MisterBastahrd 10y ago
    "I know it's hard to believe, but women don't usually get sent to coding summer camp as teenagers. Our parents don't usually encourage us to take AP computer science, and our best friends aren't in CS and don't refer us for sweet internships at Microsoft and Google." I never mentioned men, but since you decided to make it a point, her generalization is that women are being denied these things. Given that there are two genders, I'll leave it as an exercise as to which one she's referring to when she lists these activities.
    - ethanbond 10y ago
      Or that they simply don't participate in these things? Nowhere did she say someone stops women from doing those things, just that women don't do them nearly as often as men (which is true).
      - dominotw 10y ago
        >Or that they simply don't participate in these things? one half is not given the opportunity and other half is not participating out of their own will. So what's the point of talking about this at all if no one is doing it at all. Unless your assuption is girls need extra help while boys just get it on their own. Benevolent sexism?
jordigh 10y ago
hahaha, I can't believe you actually got "not all men"! http://www.listen-tome.com/save-me/ http://www.listen-tome.com/save-me/ I too find these HN threads really troubling. I'm very glad to hear you speak up.
this2shallpaas 10y ago
"Usually" means "most", because it means "generally," as in "more often than not." https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/usually https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/usually https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/generally https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/generally
- calex 10y ago
  >I know it's hard to believe, but women don't usually get sent to coding summer camp as teenagers. Our parents don't usually encourage us to take AP computer science, and our best friends aren't in CS and don't refer us for sweet internships at Microsoft and Google. My original use of "usually". I was talking about women with the "usually", not men. It is a FACT that 82% of the people taking AP computer science are boys. I am arguing that some of this discrepancy is because parents and society nurture this talents in boys, including boys that don't have a lot of natural ability. Which is fine! We need programmers, even mediocre programmers. I am saying nothing against the men who seized these opportunities, nor against the parents who encouraged them. Read the medium article I linked.
  - this2shallpaas 10y ago
    Thanks for the links - I did read them. Yes, that was part of your original use of "usually." The way you used it in context implied the opposite group experiences the list of things the other group usually doesn't. You communicated that while most women don't do x, y, and z, most men do x, y, and z. My claim is they don't. Yes - of those that do x, y, and z, most are men - but most men still do not do x, y, and z. What percentage of people take AP CS? Most men do not take AP CS (very few men take AP CS in the U.S. or world). Realize the experience you described as common among men isn't most men's experience, and not most people's experience in general. Even if most of the people who had it were men.
  - dominotw 10y ago
    Usually can only be used in a comparison, one cannot apply that to just one group independently because the assumption here is that there is out group normal. Correct me if I am wrong, I am not a native English speaker.
kalsk 10y ago
>I know it's hard to believe, but women don't usually get sent to coding summer camp as teenagers. Our parents don't usually encourage us to take AP computer science, and our best friends aren't in CS and don't refer us for sweet internships at Microsoft and Google. The implication is that this must be true for men; otherwise this is a complete non-sequitur.

by calex 10y ago

MisterBastahrd 10y ago

... generalizations tend to imply all or most as a matter of course. It's why they're generalizations.

ethanbond 10y ago
She literally didn't even offer commentary on what any/many/all men do whatsoever.
- MisterBastahrd 10y ago
  "I know it's hard to believe, but women don't usually get sent to coding summer camp as teenagers. Our parents don't usually encourage us to take AP computer science, and our best friends aren't in CS and don't refer us for sweet internships at Microsoft and Google." I never mentioned men, but since you decided to make it a point, her generalization is that women are being denied these things. Given that there are two genders, I'll leave it as an exercise as to which one she's referring to when she lists these activities.
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    Or that they simply don't participate in these things? Nowhere did she say someone stops women from doing those things, just that women don't do them nearly as often as men (which is true).
    - dominotw 10y ago
      >Or that they simply don't participate in these things? one half is not given the opportunity and other half is not participating out of their own will. So what's the point of talking about this at all if no one is doing it at all. Unless your assuption is girls need extra help while boys just get it on their own. Benevolent sexism?

jordigh 10y ago

hahaha, I can't believe you actually got "not all men"! http://www.listen-tome.com/save-me/ http://www.listen-tome.com/save-me/ I too find these HN threads really troubling. I'm very glad to hear you speak up.

this2shallpaas 10y ago

"Usually" means "most", because it means "generally," as in "more often than not." https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/usually https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/usually https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/generally https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/generally

calex 10y ago
>I know it's hard to believe, but women don't usually get sent to coding summer camp as teenagers. Our parents don't usually encourage us to take AP computer science, and our best friends aren't in CS and don't refer us for sweet internships at Microsoft and Google. My original use of "usually". I was talking about women with the "usually", not men. It is a FACT that 82% of the people taking AP computer science are boys. I am arguing that some of this discrepancy is because parents and society nurture this talents in boys, including boys that don't have a lot of natural ability. Which is fine! We need programmers, even mediocre programmers. I am saying nothing against the men who seized these opportunities, nor against the parents who encouraged them. Read the medium article I linked.
- this2shallpaas 10y ago
  Thanks for the links - I did read them. Yes, that was part of your original use of "usually." The way you used it in context implied the opposite group experiences the list of things the other group usually doesn't. You communicated that while most women don't do x, y, and z, most men do x, y, and z. My claim is they don't. Yes - of those that do x, y, and z, most are men - but most men still do not do x, y, and z. What percentage of people take AP CS? Most men do not take AP CS (very few men take AP CS in the U.S. or world). Realize the experience you described as common among men isn't most men's experience, and not most people's experience in general. Even if most of the people who had it were men.
- dominotw 10y ago
  Usually can only be used in a comparison, one cannot apply that to just one group independently because the assumption here is that there is out group normal. Correct me if I am wrong, I am not a native English speaker.

kalsk 10y ago

>I know it's hard to believe, but women don't usually get sent to coding summer camp as teenagers. Our parents don't usually encourage us to take AP computer science, and our best friends aren't in CS and don't refer us for sweet internships at Microsoft and Google. The implication is that this must be true for men; otherwise this is a complete non-sequitur.