4 ms·
> I'm all for equality, as long as everyone has equal chances, which we currently don't have. But that will keep a status quo if one group is starting out as a
by nothrabannosir 10y ago
> I'm all for equality, as long as everyone has equal chances, which we currently don't have.
But that will keep a status quo if one group is starting out as a serious minority. That's the whole point of equality movements: you have to adjust upwards for a bit, until it's actually equal. Then you can go back to being fair.
EDIT: This thread is blowing up, so I want to clarify my comment: I'm talking about affirmative action, and I think it's a good idea in the case of women in tech, presently.
- dom0 10y agoWoah. Just to clarify: That's absolutely not the "whole point of equality movements". This is a stance some people take on it. By far not all.
- the8472 10y agoEqual chances would also mean an equal chance to get hired if you actually apply. So why do you need extra adjustment beyond that? Simple turnover should approach an equilibrium eventually.
- jakelazaroff 10y agoUnfortunately, there are also many examples that white men have a huge advantage in the hiring process solely because they're white men. This is easily shown by sending companies the same résumé with different names that signify gender or race. - https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/unofficial-prognosis/study-shows-gender-bias-in-science-is-real-heres-why-it-matters https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/unofficial-prognosis/st... - http://gender.stanford.edu/news/2014/why-does-john-get-stem-job-rather-jennifer http://gender.stanford.edu/news/2014/why-does-john-get-stem-... - http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-biz-20160503-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-bias-hiring-0504-b...
- reader5000 10y agoActually your links (assuming replicability of the studies etc) just support the claim that "names that conform to the majority culture do better". They do not support your first sentence at all. It is perfectly possible for non-white people to have white names. Your implication that companies demonstrating preference for cultural/class conformity and familiarity is somehow unexpected or "unfortunate" doesn't follow.
- jakelazaroff 10y agoYes, that's the claim they support, but the "majority culture" that the names signify is "white and male" specifically. You seem to be saying that since people can be given any name there's no way to infer race and gender from a given name, which is ridiculous: of course there's a correlation between a name, race and gender. Look at the top 1000 names from 1995, the next birth year that will be graduating from college en masse. "Jessica" is the top name for girls, while it doesn't even appear in the top 1000 for boys. http://www.babynames.it/top100/1/year-1995.html http://www.babynames.it/top100/1/year-1995.html
- reader5000 10y agoYes exactly, there is nothing "unfortunate" about the implications of those studies. Also thanks for taking the time to statistically prove "Jessica" is a girl's name for some reason.
- bbctol 10y agoIt's unfortunate if you don't have a white man's name...
- reader5000 10y agoI agree, but I don't think it's any more unfortunate than not having a Chinese name in China, Indian name in India, etc. Humans are inherently risk averse, and cultural conformity is an upshot of that. To penalize or otherwise persecute "white males" for having and participating in a culture seems unjust.
- ori_b 10y agoThe answer to this is anonymized resumes.
- jakelazaroff 10y agoThat's only going to fix the first step in the hiring process. The larger issue this shows is that people are biased to believe that women and people of color are less qualified for STEM jobs.
- wnoise 10y ago1. Fixing the first step is important and necessary. 2. Exposure at the next level will normalize the idea that women and non-whites should be given serious consideration in hiring.
- saintwind 10y agoEqual opportunity, not equal outcome. The latter is artificially enforced, and by its very nature is not equality.
- softawre 10y agoWhen do you stop over-correcting?
- aeharding 10y agoCan you provide an example of an equality movement where overcompensating worked better than making everyone "actually equal"? In America during the '50s, did black people demand white people to not be allowed to sit in the front of the bus until everyone was "actually equal"?
- nothrabannosir 10y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action But I think you make a good point.