5 ms·

so, we always say this... but doesn't the success of amazon, and other "degree" driven companies mean we are wrong?? maybe having a degree does matter?

by vinhboy 17y ago

j_baker 17y ago
Correlation does not imply causation. That said, I won't say that a degree is worthless. I will say that too often we think of a degree as a bullet point on a resume or a job listing rather than thinking of it as a means to actually learn something.
- gaius 17y ago
  That is the trick to admissions at elite colleges. They admit people who would succeed regardless. Sure the name brand and the alumni you know helps, but it helps by saving time, you don't need to prove yourself so much. You still need to be you tho'.
cookiecaper 17y ago
There are many counter-examples. What about the success of non-degree-driven companies like Microsoft, where the founder dropped out before completing school? Does that prove that degrees are silly and worthless? The thing is that degrees might mean something or they might not; it's not too hard to get through higher education without retaining anything or even learning anything relevant in the first place, but by the same token, some people do some really cool and meaningful work at college and it means a lot. You just have to take it on a case-by-case basis.
- jbarham 17y ago
  No, it's a false dichotomy to say that because Bill Gates dropped out of college that all degrees are therefore "silly and worthless". He dropped out of Harvard (where simply being accepted is an achievement in itself) in order to found the the company that would eventually make him the wealthiest person in the world. There is no doubt that he would have been capable of completing his degree had he chosen to. For regular people who need to persuade someone else to hire them, having a degree certainly helps and is often a requirement.
  - chc 17y ago
    That is the point. Not having a degree doesn't imply that one wouldn't be capable of completing a degree. Bill Gates is an example of that. People here also aren't saying that that a degree isn't "often a requirement" in job listings — they're saying it shouldn't be, not that it isn't. Incidentally, I would bet most people who don't have degrees could have one if you gave them a full free ride. Getting a degree these days requires several years of your life and huge gobs of money, but that's pretty much it.
- chc 17y ago
  If degrees "might mean something or they might not," then they don't mean anything. In order for a predictor to be useful, it has to be reliable. If I have to take it on a case-by-case basis anyway, why would I bother looking at the degree itself? That puts it on the same level as the applicant's star sign and blood type.
  - cookiecaper 17y ago
    I wouldn't go that far. A star sign and blood type are almost never relevant. A degree might be relevant, but it might not. You're correct that it's not a good way to filter resumes, but that doesn't make it completely useless.

so, we always say this... but doesn't the success of amazon, and other "degree" driven companies mean we are wrong?? maybe having a degree does matter?

by vinhboy 17y ago

so, we always say this... but doesn't the success of amazon, and other "degree" driven companies mean we are wrong?? maybe having a degree does matter?

j_baker 17y ago

Correlation does not imply causation. That said, I won't say that a degree is worthless. I will say that too often we think of a degree as a bullet point on a resume or a job listing rather than thinking of it as a means to actually learn something.

gaius 17y ago
That is the trick to admissions at elite colleges. They admit people who would succeed regardless. Sure the name brand and the alumni you know helps, but it helps by saving time, you don't need to prove yourself so much. You still need to be you tho'.

cookiecaper 17y ago

There are many counter-examples. What about the success of non-degree-driven companies like Microsoft, where the founder dropped out before completing school? Does that prove that degrees are silly and worthless? The thing is that degrees might mean something or they might not; it's not too hard to get through higher education without retaining anything or even learning anything relevant in the first place, but by the same token, some people do some really cool and meaningful work at college and it means a lot. You just have to take it on a case-by-case basis.

jbarham 17y ago
No, it's a false dichotomy to say that because Bill Gates dropped out of college that all degrees are therefore "silly and worthless". He dropped out of Harvard (where simply being accepted is an achievement in itself) in order to found the the company that would eventually make him the wealthiest person in the world. There is no doubt that he would have been capable of completing his degree had he chosen to. For regular people who need to persuade someone else to hire them, having a degree certainly helps and is often a requirement.
- chc 17y ago
  That is the point. Not having a degree doesn't imply that one wouldn't be capable of completing a degree. Bill Gates is an example of that. People here also aren't saying that that a degree isn't "often a requirement" in job listings — they're saying it shouldn't be, not that it isn't. Incidentally, I would bet most people who don't have degrees could have one if you gave them a full free ride. Getting a degree these days requires several years of your life and huge gobs of money, but that's pretty much it.
chc 17y ago
If degrees "might mean something or they might not," then they don't mean anything. In order for a predictor to be useful, it has to be reliable. If I have to take it on a case-by-case basis anyway, why would I bother looking at the degree itself? That puts it on the same level as the applicant's star sign and blood type.
- cookiecaper 17y ago
  I wouldn't go that far. A star sign and blood type are almost never relevant. A degree might be relevant, but it might not. You're correct that it's not a good way to filter resumes, but that doesn't make it completely useless.