5 ms·

Here is npm's response: http://blog.npmjs.org/post/151660845210/hello-yarn http://blog.npmjs.org/post/151660845210/hello-yarn

by jrs235 10y ago

Touche 10y ago
Looks like they are trying to write off yarn as just another alternative install tool. I think this is short cited and hope they are taking this threat more seriously internally.
BinaryIdiot 10y ago
I'm glad they're okay with it but then again what else would they post? npm has some major, major issues with it and it has barely moved in years. This Yarn looks like it solves quite a few issues with npm and it took another company to build it. That's insane. It wouldn't surprise me if yarn becomes popular and its proxy to npm slowly turns off and boom, everyone would be migrated and npm would be left with little to no users. Yeah that's probably unlikely for the immediate future but Yarn is positioned perfectly to siphon off npm's users very painlessly.
- sotojuan 10y ago
  Does anyone know why npm moves so slowly?
  - softawre 10y ago
    they have millions of installs and can't break them?
    - striking 10y ago
      Well, but remember that time they shipped an SSL cert that broke all updated clients? I'm not sure they move slowly because they don't want to break things, because that would have been a pretty easy bug to catch... http://blog.npmjs.org/post/78165272245/more-help-with-selfsignedcertinchain-and-npm http://blog.npmjs.org/post/78165272245/more-help-with-selfsi...
      - ssunstruck 10y ago
        That's not really a good counter example. It's more of a mistake on a release...
        striking 10y ago
        It's more of a failure to double check that npm runs when you change the SSL cert you bundled with it. I think it's a great example of moving a little too quickly, honestly. Especially since it bricked plenty of npm installs instead of being "just another bug".
    - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
      Do they necessarily have to break them to move faster? It's a package installer. Yarn is handling locking / shrinkwrapping different but I would argue shrinkwrap needs to be abandoned and re-done anyway so I'm not seeing the risk. It took them, what, two years just to flatten dependencies and move to npm 3? That was actively breaking Windows usage of node! I love the service they offer. Not a fan of the tools or pace. Npm comes in the node installer so why do they even have to care about improving? Just my thoughts.
  - LunaSea 10y ago
    Because they focused on hiring SJW profiles that write codes of conducts and readme's all day long instead of actually software engineers that could improve the tool.
    - sctb 10y ago
      Please resist the temptation to glom ideological snark onto unrelated threads. That's not what this site is for and it ruins threads for everyone by being simultaneously distracting and boring.
  - secoif 10y ago
    technical debt and not wanting to break people's workflows
  - Jean-Philipe 10y ago
    What do you mean by moving slowly? IMO there's not much to add. I'd like to see some speed improvements, but otherwise I'm not sure npm should evolve.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
dlandis 10y ago
It is quite a congenial response and no disrespect to npm inc, but yarn will be technically far superior (if it's not already), and I can't help but interpret this as the beginning of the end for npm....It was only a matter of time though since there are a number of systemic problems with npm and (in my opinion) it is at the center of the dysfunctional world of modern JavaScript tooling. It did move the ecosystem forward significantly for a number of years, but now something better is required. Sorry to be blunt, just my opinion.
- Cthulhu_ 10y ago
  NPM can evolve; Gradle and SBT also didn't turn out to be the end of Maven, which evolved to being more of a repository and dependency management tool with multiple clients.
  - vroombaprime 10y ago
    This would make a lot of sense. I would /never/ make a build using maven again, but having maven central around is a huge plus for the jvm ecosystem and I'm happy it survives. (plus lots of people continue to make new builds with maven and legacy maven builds will be around basically forever)
dmix 10y ago
Interesting how they point out how Yarn still depends on them since it pulls packages from NPM's package repo. Kind of like a reminder of who the dominant player still is.
shados 10y ago
That's pretty well written, though you can see slight hints of bitterness in the tone (though its subtle). Or maybe I'm a little biased, because I've seen some of the non-public reactions, and they were more than a little bitter...

Here is npm's response: http://blog.npmjs.org/post/151660845210/hello-yarn http://blog.npmjs.org/post/151660845210/hello-yarn

by jrs235 10y ago

Here is npm's response: http://blog.npmjs.org/post/151660845210/hello-yarn http://blog.npmjs.org/post/151660845210/hello-yarn

Touche 10y ago

Looks like they are trying to write off yarn as just another alternative install tool. I think this is short cited and hope they are taking this threat more seriously internally.

BinaryIdiot 10y ago

I'm glad they're okay with it but then again what else would they post? npm has some major, major issues with it and it has barely moved in years. This Yarn looks like it solves quite a few issues with npm and it took another company to build it. That's insane. It wouldn't surprise me if yarn becomes popular and its proxy to npm slowly turns off and boom, everyone would be migrated and npm would be left with little to no users. Yeah that's probably unlikely for the immediate future but Yarn is positioned perfectly to siphon off npm's users very painlessly.

sotojuan 10y ago
Does anyone know why npm moves so slowly?
- softawre 10y ago
  they have millions of installs and can't break them?
  - striking 10y ago
    Well, but remember that time they shipped an SSL cert that broke all updated clients? I'm not sure they move slowly because they don't want to break things, because that would have been a pretty easy bug to catch... http://blog.npmjs.org/post/78165272245/more-help-with-selfsignedcertinchain-and-npm http://blog.npmjs.org/post/78165272245/more-help-with-selfsi...
    - ssunstruck 10y ago
      That's not really a good counter example. It's more of a mistake on a release...
      - striking 10y ago
        It's more of a failure to double check that npm runs when you change the SSL cert you bundled with it. I think it's a great example of moving a little too quickly, honestly. Especially since it bricked plenty of npm installs instead of being "just another bug".
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    Do they necessarily have to break them to move faster? It's a package installer. Yarn is handling locking / shrinkwrapping different but I would argue shrinkwrap needs to be abandoned and re-done anyway so I'm not seeing the risk. It took them, what, two years just to flatten dependencies and move to npm 3? That was actively breaking Windows usage of node! I love the service they offer. Not a fan of the tools or pace. Npm comes in the node installer so why do they even have to care about improving? Just my thoughts.
- LunaSea 10y ago
  Because they focused on hiring SJW profiles that write codes of conducts and readme's all day long instead of actually software engineers that could improve the tool.
  - sctb 10y ago
    Please resist the temptation to glom ideological snark onto unrelated threads. That's not what this site is for and it ruins threads for everyone by being simultaneously distracting and boring.
- secoif 10y ago
  technical debt and not wanting to break people's workflows
- Jean-Philipe 10y ago
  What do you mean by moving slowly? IMO there's not much to add. I'd like to see some speed improvements, but otherwise I'm not sure npm should evolve.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

dlandis 10y ago

It is quite a congenial response and no disrespect to npm inc, but yarn will be technically far superior (if it's not already), and I can't help but interpret this as the beginning of the end for npm....It was only a matter of time though since there are a number of systemic problems with npm and (in my opinion) it is at the center of the dysfunctional world of modern JavaScript tooling. It did move the ecosystem forward significantly for a number of years, but now something better is required. Sorry to be blunt, just my opinion.

Cthulhu_ 10y ago
NPM can evolve; Gradle and SBT also didn't turn out to be the end of Maven, which evolved to being more of a repository and dependency management tool with multiple clients.
- vroombaprime 10y ago
  This would make a lot of sense. I would /never/ make a build using maven again, but having maven central around is a huge plus for the jvm ecosystem and I'm happy it survives. (plus lots of people continue to make new builds with maven and legacy maven builds will be around basically forever)

dmix 10y ago

Interesting how they point out how Yarn still depends on them since it pulls packages from NPM's package repo. Kind of like a reminder of who the dominant player still is.

shados 10y ago

That's pretty well written, though you can see slight hints of bitterness in the tone (though its subtle). Or maybe I'm a little biased, because I've seen some of the non-public reactions, and they were more than a little bitter...