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I've only just run across this. It looks like the story here is: 1. Guy publishes paid app to iTunes 2. App is really good, gets a ton of good reviews 3. App

I've only just run across this. It looks like the story here is: 1. Guy publishes paid app to iTunes 2. App is really good, gets a ton of good reviews 3. Apple decides those reviews must be fraudulent, and pulls his app from the store and tells the guy he has to publicly admit that he committed review fraud to get his app reinstated. 4. People who have bought the app can't download it, guy can't do anything to make his own app available anymore without making a false confession and harming his own reputation. This sort of heavy-handed-but-uncareful approach to "curation" is consistent with my experience publishing to the iOS app store.

joeberon 10y ago
What actually happened: 1. Guy publishes good paid app and gets a tonne of good reviews 2. He helps out a relative by buying an apple developer account for them, giving them a machine to test with 3. Relative also uses same "com.kapeli.*" bundle ID 4. Relative decides to buy 1000 fraudulent reviews 5. Apple tells the relative to stop posting fraud reviews, who refuses 6. Apple terminates both developers accounts since they are all the same information (they look like the same person, same credit card, bank account, test machine, and bundle ID) https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/56uque/apple_dash_developer_had_two_accounts_25_apps_and/?st=iu5jzhpf&sh=fa17ecd2 https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/56uque/apple_dash_de...
- falcolas 10y ago
  Don't forget: 7. Apple offers to reinstate the developer account, iff the user makes a post pointing out how this wasn't Apple's fault.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- okket 10y ago
  I find it hard to believe that this happened without his knowledge. It was his credit card. It was his identifier. I can not imagine he never searched the store for lookalikes or his identifier, etc. See https://software.com/publisher/kapeli https://software.com/publisher/kapeli Just to clarify: On Friday my position was "I have no reason to believe Kapeli is lying and every reason to believe that Apple made a mistake". But after reading and listening to various sources I can not defend this position any more. It makes me sad.
- funkydata 10y ago
  The accounts were linked (same devices, same credit card number): https://london.kapeli.com/downloads/Apple_Call.m4a https://london.kapeli.com/downloads/Apple_Call.m4a (edit: direct link to the phone call with the Apple representative) As much as they tend to piss me off for other things. I don't see any wrongdoing from them. It's like accusing them of cutting off the payments to a bakery that operates from the same bank account to that of a drug dealer. Also that kind of blackmail: "You're sure you want that statement to become public?" is plain stupid.
  - joeberon 10y ago
    Why is the developer being so dense? Just being difficult for no reason because he has a stick up his ass. "You're sure you want that statement to become public" it literally makes no sense... All he's done is posting that Apple call has burnt every bridge he had with them, and made Apple look great. Literally they sound very professional on that call and very willing to help him, and instead he is just being unnecessarily difficult.
    - spacehunt 10y ago
      Actually I wouldn't be so sure as to who burnt the bridge first. He posted the recording after Apple went public with their side of the story. What happened to the supposed blog post? Why did Apple go to the press without getting back to him on the draft?
      - cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
        No one knows what happened between the phone call and Apple's press release. So we can't make judgment on that. That said, I was amazed how that guy from Apple was being so patient with this guy being so immature. The Apple guy was trying his best to sort this out, but for every word he said, this Dash guy would keep complaining. This phone call could have ended in 30 seconds but took over 7 minutes because all this guy did was complain (which I think he did for the purpose of making this recording), and I don't even know what you would get from complaining that way when the other person was trying to help you. I would have been pissed if I was that Apple guy.
- spacehunt 10y ago
  > 3. Relative also uses same "com.kapeli.*" bundle ID Just saying: anyone can freely create any App ID they want. I just successfully created "com.google.android.nougat" as a test.
  - okket 10y ago
    Do you expect to use this identifier to make money (in a fraudulent way) and Google not caring over several years?
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    I'm fairly sure you don't have the same user and CC on file as they do.
    - spacehunt 10y ago
      But it proves bundle IDs can only be treated as circumstantial evidence at most.
      - st3v3r 10y ago
        So you combine that with the same CC number on file, and the same development machines, and now you have a very good chance the same person is responsible.
Crosseye_Jack 10y ago
In addition to what joeberon said. After this happened Apple were prepared to welcome him back to the App Store after Apple had learnt of all the facts. Kapei had gone public about this account nuke (which at times is the only way to raise the issue, I remember the times I've had to deal with Googles Support for the play store shudder) and while he didn't know all the details on why his account was nuked the issue has gained some notable press in the dev circles. Because of this Apple had asked for him to release a blog post explaining what had happened, that Apple had correctly detected fake reviews on one account, that account was linked in a couple of ways to him so when Apple nuked the one account they nuked the other along with it and that's is why his account was terminated. Now in my opinion that is a fair request and if I were in his shoes I would of done just that because I can see how Apple could of tied the two accounts together. Others have said that it's Apple Blackmailing him "Post a blog post if you want your account back" and I can see their logic. Apple don't want to be seen as they made a mistake because they did detect fake reviews and took account against the account volating their polices. But they also want it known why his account was caught up in this mess. Were Apple right in nuking both accounts that they deemed were linked together? Should Apple made contact with all parties (it seems the accounts did have at least differnt contact information as he said he got no notice off Apple, Apple say they did contact the dev who's app had the fake reviews) before terminating accounts? Should a public statement explaining the incident be a requirement of reinclusion to the App Store These are questions I have asked myself and have yet to come to a firm decision on myself.
- funkydata 10y ago
  Have you listened to the phone call?
  - Crosseye_Jack 10y ago
    Yes. Well the snippet of the call that was released on his blog anyway.
    - funkydata 10y ago
      There is not blackmailing from Apple. They are offering him a chance to wipe his slate clean if he publicly (since he was the one to go public) acknowledges that what Apple did was justified (and it was). He has to now decide what's more important: his pride or his revenue (https://web.archive.org/web/20150103225308/http://blog.kapeli.com/my-year-in-review-2014 https://web.archive.org/web/20150103225308/http://blog.kapel...), it's that simple.

joeberon 10y ago

What actually happened: 1. Guy publishes good paid app and gets a tonne of good reviews 2. He helps out a relative by buying an apple developer account for them, giving them a machine to test with 3. Relative also uses same "com.kapeli.*" bundle ID 4. Relative decides to buy 1000 fraudulent reviews 5. Apple tells the relative to stop posting fraud reviews, who refuses 6. Apple terminates both developers accounts since they are all the same information (they look like the same person, same credit card, bank account, test machine, and bundle ID) https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/56uque/apple_dash_developer_had_two_accounts_25_apps_and/?st=iu5jzhpf&sh=fa17ecd2 https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/56uque/apple_dash_de...

falcolas 10y ago
Don't forget: 7. Apple offers to reinstate the developer account, iff the user makes a post pointing out how this wasn't Apple's fault.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
okket 10y ago
I find it hard to believe that this happened without his knowledge. It was his credit card. It was his identifier. I can not imagine he never searched the store for lookalikes or his identifier, etc. See https://software.com/publisher/kapeli https://software.com/publisher/kapeli Just to clarify: On Friday my position was "I have no reason to believe Kapeli is lying and every reason to believe that Apple made a mistake". But after reading and listening to various sources I can not defend this position any more. It makes me sad.
funkydata 10y ago
The accounts were linked (same devices, same credit card number): https://london.kapeli.com/downloads/Apple_Call.m4a https://london.kapeli.com/downloads/Apple_Call.m4a (edit: direct link to the phone call with the Apple representative) As much as they tend to piss me off for other things. I don't see any wrongdoing from them. It's like accusing them of cutting off the payments to a bakery that operates from the same bank account to that of a drug dealer. Also that kind of blackmail: "You're sure you want that statement to become public?" is plain stupid.
- joeberon 10y ago
  Why is the developer being so dense? Just being difficult for no reason because he has a stick up his ass. "You're sure you want that statement to become public" it literally makes no sense... All he's done is posting that Apple call has burnt every bridge he had with them, and made Apple look great. Literally they sound very professional on that call and very willing to help him, and instead he is just being unnecessarily difficult.
  - spacehunt 10y ago
    Actually I wouldn't be so sure as to who burnt the bridge first. He posted the recording after Apple went public with their side of the story. What happened to the supposed blog post? Why did Apple go to the press without getting back to him on the draft?
    - cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
      No one knows what happened between the phone call and Apple's press release. So we can't make judgment on that. That said, I was amazed how that guy from Apple was being so patient with this guy being so immature. The Apple guy was trying his best to sort this out, but for every word he said, this Dash guy would keep complaining. This phone call could have ended in 30 seconds but took over 7 minutes because all this guy did was complain (which I think he did for the purpose of making this recording), and I don't even know what you would get from complaining that way when the other person was trying to help you. I would have been pissed if I was that Apple guy.
spacehunt 10y ago
> 3. Relative also uses same "com.kapeli.*" bundle ID Just saying: anyone can freely create any App ID they want. I just successfully created "com.google.android.nougat" as a test.
- okket 10y ago
  Do you expect to use this identifier to make money (in a fraudulent way) and Google not caring over several years?
- st3v3r 10y ago
  I'm fairly sure you don't have the same user and CC on file as they do.
  - spacehunt 10y ago
    But it proves bundle IDs can only be treated as circumstantial evidence at most.
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      So you combine that with the same CC number on file, and the same development machines, and now you have a very good chance the same person is responsible.

Crosseye_Jack 10y ago

In addition to what joeberon said. After this happened Apple were prepared to welcome him back to the App Store after Apple had learnt of all the facts. Kapei had gone public about this account nuke (which at times is the only way to raise the issue, I remember the times I've had to deal with Googles Support for the play store shudder) and while he didn't know all the details on why his account was nuked the issue has gained some notable press in the dev circles. Because of this Apple had asked for him to release a blog post explaining what had happened, that Apple had correctly detected fake reviews on one account, that account was linked in a couple of ways to him so when Apple nuked the one account they nuked the other along with it and that's is why his account was terminated. Now in my opinion that is a fair request and if I were in his shoes I would of done just that because I can see how Apple could of tied the two accounts together. Others have said that it's Apple Blackmailing him "Post a blog post if you want your account back" and I can see their logic. Apple don't want to be seen as they made a mistake because they did detect fake reviews and took account against the account volating their polices. But they also want it known why his account was caught up in this mess. Were Apple right in nuking both accounts that they deemed were linked together? Should Apple made contact with all parties (it seems the accounts did have at least differnt contact information as he said he got no notice off Apple, Apple say they did contact the dev who's app had the fake reviews) before terminating accounts? Should a public statement explaining the incident be a requirement of reinclusion to the App Store These are questions I have asked myself and have yet to come to a firm decision on myself.

funkydata 10y ago
Have you listened to the phone call?
- Crosseye_Jack 10y ago
  Yes. Well the snippet of the call that was released on his blog anyway.
  - funkydata 10y ago
    There is not blackmailing from Apple. They are offering him a chance to wipe his slate clean if he publicly (since he was the one to go public) acknowledges that what Apple did was justified (and it was). He has to now decide what's more important: his pride or his revenue (https://web.archive.org/web/20150103225308/http://blog.kapeli.com/my-year-in-review-2014 https://web.archive.org/web/20150103225308/http://blog.kapel...), it's that simple.