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It does not help if population of poor multiplies itself faster than the capital can crow or there are resources on Earth. :( I think that it is foremost impor

It does not help if population of poor multiplies itself faster than the capital can crow or there are resources on Earth. :( I think that it is foremost important thing to get the population gains under control. If this has happened then we have plenty of time of to figure out how to actually fairly share our home we call Earth. Current trends do show that things are moving to towards normalization, but it is not yet conclusive.

speeder 10y ago
Your idea is and old, and dangerous one. Many countries trying to reduce population are succeeding, even Brazil that is not developed already has 1.8 child per woman on average. The problem is that the poor remain reproducing faster always. So how you enforce it? Pull a China and remove rights of poor people that ended with multiple kids and end with murderous parents? Murder children yourself, Sparta style? Force sterilize women and then give out reproduction licenses like a dystopian scifi movie? "Education" and "career" is not a solution, by definition the elite will have always more of that, and all else equal, will reproduce slower.
- eveningcoffee 10y ago
  I think that, in principle if it could be arranged such that the exploitation of the children is not beneficial for the family then the problem would solve itself. If children are only burden and not the source of the income (by direct workforce during the young age or by sending money to the family when older) and contraceptives are accepted and accessible then there is no initiative to have too many children. Well, at least it looks to be the case.
  - speeder 10y ago
    Then why families in Brazillian favelas, where children are a burden and government give free contraceptive and contraceptive education, still have extremely poor families with 6+ kids?
    - eveningcoffee 10y ago
      It is hard to say for me given that I am not very familiar with the situation. I met a guy who had a wife who were born in favelas. They do not live now in Brazil, just visit once a year. I do not know how much of it is factually correct, so please set me right if something of this is wrong. First of he explained that Brazilian education system gets you trapped. While universities are free, the basic education is either expensive or so bad that it would not allow children to get into universities. So if you are born in favela, you can not get out of it based on your education. If this is like this by design and intentional, or just out of stupidity, I do not know. But I would conclude from this that also that there exists no social pressure in this community to get out of it as it is possibly regarded as almost impossible. Second he explained that her wife went through serious hardship during the school age, as the school meal was for her only way to get something to eat. I would conclude from this that I could be that actually the children are not such a burden for parents in favelas - school system keeps them alive, they do not die from hunger and nobody gets blamed. Third the average temperature in Rio is constantly >= 20 C. This means that nobody really has to prepare for prolonged period of cold. Nobody will die because they do not have proper housing or can not pay for the heating or have proper clothes. Based on these 3 pieces of information I would the kids are for them not a burden, at least not in a sense I considered, in addition there is currently no force that would motivate to improve the situation. So the solution would be more complicated. At least they are not motivated in children because of economical gains and it would possibly make the solution simpler. PS. Please not the this is just an argumentation based on these small pieces of information. I would recommend to look up if there are some studies that would clarify this situation in a more systematic manner. Also I am certainly not claiming that this opinion piece reflects actual truth.
      - speeder 10y ago
        São Paulo right now, is having a problem of kids on schools not getting enough food. Rio is just fucked up, the government right now is with a debt of about 500 million USD in unpaid wages to common state employees (teachers, cooks, janitors, etc...) In some places, there are not even enough schools in first place. Yet, people pump kids out like there is no tomorrow, I don't know why is that, people even make TV programs out of it, kinda like exploiting the poor by showing their bizareness on TV, like when they showed a family with 12 kids or something like that, where the older kids had to take care of newborns, and both parents combined and all welfare combined gave them in total about 300 USD month. So how you put stop to that without resorting to extreme means? I know no viable solution. All known plans toward that, ended being labelled as evil in some way (for example there are various theories that Swedish flu vaccines that caused diseases in young people were intentional culling of population, similarly many people believe that divorce laws, abortion, etc... is similarly some kind of evil plan to cull population).

speeder 10y ago

Your idea is and old, and dangerous one. Many countries trying to reduce population are succeeding, even Brazil that is not developed already has 1.8 child per woman on average. The problem is that the poor remain reproducing faster always. So how you enforce it? Pull a China and remove rights of poor people that ended with multiple kids and end with murderous parents? Murder children yourself, Sparta style? Force sterilize women and then give out reproduction licenses like a dystopian scifi movie? "Education" and "career" is not a solution, by definition the elite will have always more of that, and all else equal, will reproduce slower.

eveningcoffee 10y ago
I think that, in principle if it could be arranged such that the exploitation of the children is not beneficial for the family then the problem would solve itself. If children are only burden and not the source of the income (by direct workforce during the young age or by sending money to the family when older) and contraceptives are accepted and accessible then there is no initiative to have too many children. Well, at least it looks to be the case.
- speeder 10y ago
  Then why families in Brazillian favelas, where children are a burden and government give free contraceptive and contraceptive education, still have extremely poor families with 6+ kids?
  - eveningcoffee 10y ago
    It is hard to say for me given that I am not very familiar with the situation. I met a guy who had a wife who were born in favelas. They do not live now in Brazil, just visit once a year. I do not know how much of it is factually correct, so please set me right if something of this is wrong. First of he explained that Brazilian education system gets you trapped. While universities are free, the basic education is either expensive or so bad that it would not allow children to get into universities. So if you are born in favela, you can not get out of it based on your education. If this is like this by design and intentional, or just out of stupidity, I do not know. But I would conclude from this that also that there exists no social pressure in this community to get out of it as it is possibly regarded as almost impossible. Second he explained that her wife went through serious hardship during the school age, as the school meal was for her only way to get something to eat. I would conclude from this that I could be that actually the children are not such a burden for parents in favelas - school system keeps them alive, they do not die from hunger and nobody gets blamed. Third the average temperature in Rio is constantly >= 20 C. This means that nobody really has to prepare for prolonged period of cold. Nobody will die because they do not have proper housing or can not pay for the heating or have proper clothes. Based on these 3 pieces of information I would the kids are for them not a burden, at least not in a sense I considered, in addition there is currently no force that would motivate to improve the situation. So the solution would be more complicated. At least they are not motivated in children because of economical gains and it would possibly make the solution simpler. PS. Please not the this is just an argumentation based on these small pieces of information. I would recommend to look up if there are some studies that would clarify this situation in a more systematic manner. Also I am certainly not claiming that this opinion piece reflects actual truth.
    - speeder 10y ago
      São Paulo right now, is having a problem of kids on schools not getting enough food. Rio is just fucked up, the government right now is with a debt of about 500 million USD in unpaid wages to common state employees (teachers, cooks, janitors, etc...) In some places, there are not even enough schools in first place. Yet, people pump kids out like there is no tomorrow, I don't know why is that, people even make TV programs out of it, kinda like exploiting the poor by showing their bizareness on TV, like when they showed a family with 12 kids or something like that, where the older kids had to take care of newborns, and both parents combined and all welfare combined gave them in total about 300 USD month. So how you put stop to that without resorting to extreme means? I know no viable solution. All known plans toward that, ended being labelled as evil in some way (for example there are various theories that Swedish flu vaccines that caused diseases in young people were intentional culling of population, similarly many people believe that divorce laws, abortion, etc... is similarly some kind of evil plan to cull population).