7 ms·

Looks nice, but for personal use I don't like the idea of a tool like this changing the file names, and then I see the option in the Pro version to use "sidecar

by cyxxon 10y ago

Looks nice, but for personal use I don't like the idea of a tool like this changing the file names, and then I see the option in the Pro version to use "sidecar files". Nice! It then brought up another question I have often had with projects like these that start out on Unix like systems and are then available for Windows as well: why do they use dot files on Windows and tell the user to hide them manually, instead of using files with a "hidden" attribute? Part of porting should be adhering to the local conventions, should it not? Since this is not the first time I stumble upon dot files in Windows Explorer I am left wondering there is a real reason for it?

vbezhenar 10y ago
Probably it's not a high-priority issue, so they didn't implement it yet. Should be easy enough to implement for someone, who uses Windows, if they accept patches. It's a common pattern, when developers think about their environment first.
- tokenizerrr 10y ago
  Actually that looks like it's a feature they sell. If you scroll down you see mentions of TagSpaces Pro with it's number one feature: * Ability to save tags in sidecar files Here is their feature page: https://www.tagspaces.org/products/pro/#tagSidecarSaving https://www.tagspaces.org/products/pro/#tagSidecarSaving
  - michaelmior 10y ago
    The original comment clearly mentions that feature. The question was why cross-platform applications don't set the hidden attribute on dotfiles.
kijin 10y ago
Even worse are Unix utilities that leave dotfiles in every single directory they touch. Just because they're hidden doesn't mean that they're not dirty! Pleas keep your crap restricted to ~/.config, which exists for this very reason.
- ilian 10y ago
  If you place something in the ~/.config it is not portable, ones you copy your files and folders to a usb stick or sync them with dropbox, you loose the meta data.
  - kijin 10y ago
    Then the app is poorly designed. It should sync metadata over a different channel. Otherwise you get inconsistent behavior such as metadata being synced when you copy entire folders, but not when you copy individual files. Then you have to rely on even more hacks to get around that, like detecting when a file is copied and automatically copying the corresponding dotfile. Sooner or later you end up with a complete mess.
    - tscs37 10y ago
      Well 1) This is not default behaviour, you have to specifically enable this 2) They actually note that if you copy files outside their app, metadata does not get copied, it's doubtful they'll fix it So basically, NOFIX, working as intended. Not poor design.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  > ~/.config, which exists for this very reason. On GNU/Linux systems maybe, it isn't part of POSIX.
  - qznc 10y ago
    It does not conflict with POSIX though. Why not do it on BSD as well?
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      There are more UNIX systems out there. How will you enforce something like that to all UNIX eco-system?
Asooka 10y ago
Also, why don't they use xattrs, or the windows alternative.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
IsmaOlvey 10y ago
On the one hand, I wouldn't want my filenames to be changed (and in addition, one would likely run into problems with the path length limit, at least on Windows). On the other hand, using sidecar files would essentially mean giving up freedom to move/rename your files. Sure, you could move/rename the metadata files manually, but it'd be much more work, and you're bound to mess up sooner or later. I'm not sure how to solve both those points without making the application "own" the files (as e.g. Camlistore does).
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  NTFS can have additional data streams associated with a file. It's used for stuff like the warnings you get when you try to run an executable downloaded from the Internet. This seems like a perfect solution for me, at least on Windows.
  - techdragon 10y ago
    It's not just the correct way on windows, it's the correct way on macOS, and any other file system with resource forks or extensible file metadata. However file metadata is usually pretty poorly understood by most developers (based on a personal sample of my past experiences) and file system resource forks are even less understood... Perfect is the enemy of good and all that sort of thing ...
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      I would say it mostly misunderstood by those not raised coding GUI applications for Mac OS, Windows, Atari or Amiga systems.
  - IsmaOlvey 10y ago
    The problem with Alternate Data Streams is interoperability. In many cases, the data will silently be lost when copying between different file systems and/or operating systems. I believe Windows itself will warn you when trying to perform an operation that would discard alternate data streams (for example copying from NTFS to FAT), but many tools would likely silently strip it. Think of things like any of the cloud drives, bittorrent, screen-sharing or IM software. Are they aware of ADS (or equivalent for that platform). What would the right thing to do be when syncing between platforms that have support, and ones that do not?

by cyxxon 10y ago

vbezhenar 10y ago

Probably it's not a high-priority issue, so they didn't implement it yet. Should be easy enough to implement for someone, who uses Windows, if they accept patches. It's a common pattern, when developers think about their environment first.

tokenizerrr 10y ago
Actually that looks like it's a feature they sell. If you scroll down you see mentions of TagSpaces Pro with it's number one feature: * Ability to save tags in sidecar files Here is their feature page: https://www.tagspaces.org/products/pro/#tagSidecarSaving https://www.tagspaces.org/products/pro/#tagSidecarSaving
- michaelmior 10y ago
  The original comment clearly mentions that feature. The question was why cross-platform applications don't set the hidden attribute on dotfiles.

kijin 10y ago

Even worse are Unix utilities that leave dotfiles in every single directory they touch. Just because they're hidden doesn't mean that they're not dirty! Pleas keep your crap restricted to ~/.config, which exists for this very reason.

ilian 10y ago
If you place something in the ~/.config it is not portable, ones you copy your files and folders to a usb stick or sync them with dropbox, you loose the meta data.
- kijin 10y ago
  Then the app is poorly designed. It should sync metadata over a different channel. Otherwise you get inconsistent behavior such as metadata being synced when you copy entire folders, but not when you copy individual files. Then you have to rely on even more hacks to get around that, like detecting when a file is copied and automatically copying the corresponding dotfile. Sooner or later you end up with a complete mess.
  - tscs37 10y ago
    Well 1) This is not default behaviour, you have to specifically enable this 2) They actually note that if you copy files outside their app, metadata does not get copied, it's doubtful they'll fix it So basically, NOFIX, working as intended. Not poor design.
pjmlp 10y ago
> ~/.config, which exists for this very reason. On GNU/Linux systems maybe, it isn't part of POSIX.
- qznc 10y ago
  It does not conflict with POSIX though. Why not do it on BSD as well?
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    There are more UNIX systems out there. How will you enforce something like that to all UNIX eco-system?

Asooka 10y ago

Also, why don't they use xattrs, or the windows alternative.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

IsmaOlvey 10y ago

On the one hand, I wouldn't want my filenames to be changed (and in addition, one would likely run into problems with the path length limit, at least on Windows). On the other hand, using sidecar files would essentially mean giving up freedom to move/rename your files. Sure, you could move/rename the metadata files manually, but it'd be much more work, and you're bound to mess up sooner or later. I'm not sure how to solve both those points without making the application "own" the files (as e.g. Camlistore does).

TeMPOraL 10y ago
NTFS can have additional data streams associated with a file. It's used for stuff like the warnings you get when you try to run an executable downloaded from the Internet. This seems like a perfect solution for me, at least on Windows.
- techdragon 10y ago
  It's not just the correct way on windows, it's the correct way on macOS, and any other file system with resource forks or extensible file metadata. However file metadata is usually pretty poorly understood by most developers (based on a personal sample of my past experiences) and file system resource forks are even less understood... Perfect is the enemy of good and all that sort of thing ...
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    I would say it mostly misunderstood by those not raised coding GUI applications for Mac OS, Windows, Atari or Amiga systems.
- IsmaOlvey 10y ago
  The problem with Alternate Data Streams is interoperability. In many cases, the data will silently be lost when copying between different file systems and/or operating systems. I believe Windows itself will warn you when trying to perform an operation that would discard alternate data streams (for example copying from NTFS to FAT), but many tools would likely silently strip it. Think of things like any of the cloud drives, bittorrent, screen-sharing or IM software. Are they aware of ADS (or equivalent for that platform). What would the right thing to do be when syncing between platforms that have support, and ones that do not?