5 ms·
Previously on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12676758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12676758 Here's a sample charge from the police press relea
by stevetrewick 10y ago
Previously on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12676758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12676758
Here's a sample charge from the police press release [0]
Preparation for terrorism. Between 31 December 2015 and 22 September 2016 Samata Ullah, with the intention of assisting another or others to commit acts of terrorism, engaged in conduct in preparation for giving effect to his intention namely, by researching an encryption programme, developing an encrypted version of his blog site and publishing the instructions around the use of programme on his blog site. Contrary to section 5 Terrorism Act 2006 [1].
Here's the Act [1] :
A person commits an offence if, with the intention of—
(a)committing acts of terrorism, or
(b)assisting another to commit such acts,
he engages in any conduct in preparation for giving effect to his intention.
In this case encryption is the conduct. It is not the conduct which gives rise to the offence, it's the intent. The actual nature of the conduct is legally irrelevant. He could just as easily have been charged with the same offence for literally any conduct if the intent was to assist in terrorism. Procuring vehicles, preparing lunch, giving a pedicure.
Lawyer in TFA seems to indicate that the met went on some kind of fishing expedition in the accused's browsing history, but a read through the linked press release [0] tells a different story :
Count 1: Membership of a proscribed organisation. On or before 22 September 2016 Samata Ullah belonged or professed to belong to a proscribed organisation namely ISIS (Daesh). Contrary to section 11 Terrorism Act 2000.
Count 2: Terrorist Training. Between 31 December 2015 and 22 September 2016 Samata Ullah provided instruction or training in the use of encryption programmes, and at the time he provided the instruction or training, he knew that a person receiving it intended to use the skills in which he is being instructed or trained for or in connection with the commission or preparation of acts of terrorism or for assisting the commission or preparation by others of such acts.
Count 4: Directing terrorism. Between 1 December 2015 and 22 September 2016 Samata Ullah directed the activities of an organisation which is concerned in the commission of acts of terrorism. Contrary to section 56 Terrorism Act 2000.
I would have thought those - if sufficiently evidenced - would be enough to establish intent [2], which is what kicks in Section 5.
So he wasn't charged 'because encryption' he was charged 'because terrorism'.
Please note that I'm not making (here) any argument for or against S5, just pointing out that the reporting of this case is misleading as to the legal reasoning.
[0] http://news.met.police.uk/news/man-charged-with-terror-offences-189511 http://news.met.police.uk/news/man-charged-with-terror-offen...
[1] http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/11/section/5 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/11/section/5
[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention_in_English_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intention_in_English_law
Edit: formatting
- catuskoti 10y ago> Count 1: Membership of a proscribed organisation. Besides the existence of some youtube videos, there is no other evidence that this "daesh" is truly an organization and not just an arbitrary amalgamation of people who share particular symbols or subscribe to particular views. The insurgencies in Iraq and Syria are more correctly classified as violent civilian unrest with gangs taking over particular functions from a discredited Syrian goverment. Putting videos on youtube does not turn any of that into an "organization". For any accusation of imminent lawless action, the prosecution must indicate the reasonably precise time and place where this was supposed to take place. Otherwise, it becomes too easy to accuse everybody and their little sister of plotting that kind of things. The suspect may have sympathies for the ongoing insurgencies in Iraq and Syria, but that is not a valid reason to attack this person for studying the math theorems of his choice.
- verytrivial 10y agoThanks for that summary. I am (very) pro privacy/encryption but I can see this is more akin to: "The defendant was carrying a shovel, a weapon and rubber gloves in the trunk of his car" -- not itself an offence unless they can also prove they were intending to do something nasty with these things.
- barrkel 10y ago"Going equipped" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_Act_1968#Section_25 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_Act_1968#Section_25
- MatthewWilkes 10y agoSubsection 3 is especially relevant when it comes to intent: "Where a person is charged with an offence under this section, proof that he had with him any article made or adapted for use in committing a burglary or theft shall be evidence that he had it with him for such use."
- syshum 10y ago>Please note that I'm not making (here) any argument for or against S5 Sounds like you are, sounds like you are making a very Pro S5 argument