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I have a feeling that this level of lying is much more pervasive in startups than people realize.

by garrincha 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
luckydata 10y ago
yep
oldmanjay 10y ago
By "this level" do you mean lying in order to obtain comparable funding?
Fricken 10y ago
The managers of this hedge fund handed over $100 million dollars in other people's money without so much as a whiff of due diligence. There are 13 major life sciences venture capital firms and not one of then would touch Theranos with a ten foot pole. You'd think, in theory, that whomever it was at Partner Management LP who makes the big investment decisions would make a few phone calls first before deciding to pull the trigger. Startups making bold promises about unproven technology are a dime a dozen.
- pcurve 10y ago
  Exactly. parking 2.5% of its total capital in Theranos deserves suits from its own investors.
  - seizethecheese 10y ago
    Which might explain the motive behind this suit...
jondubois 10y ago
I think humanity is literally evolving to lie and cheat at a biological level. Soon, universities will have courses in 'Mastering the art of cheating and lying'.
- elliotec 10y ago
  That's a super interesting theory.
- chrsstrm 10y ago
  >I think humanity is literally evolving to lie and cheat at a biological level. It's naive to think we were not already born with these core qualities. "Survive at all costs" is a demonstrated maxim that all living beings possess. We didn't consider lying and cheating to be frowned upon until we decided we were a civilized society with rules based on [opinions | deities | etc.]. Having experienced multiple pathological liars firsthand, it makes more sense that rather than "evolving" these qualities, people are resorting to their core human nature as they feel more and more threatened.
  - CarpetBench 10y ago
    > We didn't consider lying and cheating to be frowned upon until we decided we were a civilized society with rules based on Eh, what? Where are you getting that from? Any organism with cooperative dynamics also has to contend with cheaters, and yet cooperation is extremely prevalent in nature. There's a reason parasitism isn't considered the norm in the animal kingdom. I sincerely doubt that primitive human tribes widely tolerated healthy adults who contributed absolutely nothing to the group.
    - chrsstrm 10y ago
      > I sincerely doubt that primitive human tribes widely tolerated healthy adults who contributed absolutely nothing to the group. It's certainly not hard to imagine that no, they would not have tolerated such behavior. But does this mean that you are suggesting the members of this tribe convened and decided to put rules in place to define a member's behavior and potentially institute punishment if these rules were broken? That sounds suspiciously like a society. It's almost as if the larger population felt that attempting to hinder a particular perceived flaw in human nature was a net positive for the group as a whole. The existence of cooperation or the desire to cooperate does not disprove that cheating and lying are embedded instincts in living beings. Cheating and cooperation are not mutually exclusive concepts. The parent comment was suggesting that we are somehow evolving to lie and cheat and I'm suggesting that we have been more than capable of this behavior all along. In fact, I've gone so far as to say that not only were we immediately capable since the dawn of humankind, but we have actively suppressed these "survival skills" because they are deemed bad qualities.

I have a feeling that this level of lying is much more pervasive in startups than people realize.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

luckydata 10y ago

yep

oldmanjay 10y ago

By "this level" do you mean lying in order to obtain comparable funding?

Fricken 10y ago

The managers of this hedge fund handed over $100 million dollars in other people's money without so much as a whiff of due diligence. There are 13 major life sciences venture capital firms and not one of then would touch Theranos with a ten foot pole. You'd think, in theory, that whomever it was at Partner Management LP who makes the big investment decisions would make a few phone calls first before deciding to pull the trigger. Startups making bold promises about unproven technology are a dime a dozen.

pcurve 10y ago
Exactly. parking 2.5% of its total capital in Theranos deserves suits from its own investors.
- seizethecheese 10y ago
  Which might explain the motive behind this suit...

jondubois 10y ago

I think humanity is literally evolving to lie and cheat at a biological level. Soon, universities will have courses in 'Mastering the art of cheating and lying'.

elliotec 10y ago
That's a super interesting theory.
chrsstrm 10y ago
>I think humanity is literally evolving to lie and cheat at a biological level. It's naive to think we were not already born with these core qualities. "Survive at all costs" is a demonstrated maxim that all living beings possess. We didn't consider lying and cheating to be frowned upon until we decided we were a civilized society with rules based on [opinions | deities | etc.]. Having experienced multiple pathological liars firsthand, it makes more sense that rather than "evolving" these qualities, people are resorting to their core human nature as they feel more and more threatened.
- CarpetBench 10y ago
  > We didn't consider lying and cheating to be frowned upon until we decided we were a civilized society with rules based on Eh, what? Where are you getting that from? Any organism with cooperative dynamics also has to contend with cheaters, and yet cooperation is extremely prevalent in nature. There's a reason parasitism isn't considered the norm in the animal kingdom. I sincerely doubt that primitive human tribes widely tolerated healthy adults who contributed absolutely nothing to the group.
  - chrsstrm 10y ago
    > I sincerely doubt that primitive human tribes widely tolerated healthy adults who contributed absolutely nothing to the group. It's certainly not hard to imagine that no, they would not have tolerated such behavior. But does this mean that you are suggesting the members of this tribe convened and decided to put rules in place to define a member's behavior and potentially institute punishment if these rules were broken? That sounds suspiciously like a society. It's almost as if the larger population felt that attempting to hinder a particular perceived flaw in human nature was a net positive for the group as a whole. The existence of cooperation or the desire to cooperate does not disprove that cheating and lying are embedded instincts in living beings. Cheating and cooperation are not mutually exclusive concepts. The parent comment was suggesting that we are somehow evolving to lie and cheat and I'm suggesting that we have been more than capable of this behavior all along. In fact, I've gone so far as to say that not only were we immediately capable since the dawn of humankind, but we have actively suppressed these "survival skills" because they are deemed bad qualities.