6 ms·

How much longer until programming is the same way, now that we're pushing it to every kid and idolizing tech billionaires?

jrowley 10y ago
The barrier to entry to becoming a programmer is significantly lower, so hopefully the pressure will never be as bad. But as a recent CS graduate I certainly feel a lot of stress about my skills or lack thereof. Coincidentally, my twin brother is applying to med schools right now (on the order of 40). I applied to exactly 2 jobs, got an offer and took it.
- jimmaswell 10y ago
  The barrier to entry to call yourself a programmer or possibly make it through a Computer Science course is definitely lower, but there's potentially an immutable barrier to being a programmer regarding the ability to work with the kind of thinking required to do it, as mentioned in a comment I made elsewhere in this thread. I haven't heard the same said about becoming a doctor - I think it's considered something most people could do if they put in all the time and effort required. So, the barrier to programming might be either impassable or not there depending on who you are, while I'd assume the one to being a doctor would be difficult but doable for most people. So for those people who can't be a programmer, "difficult" would be easier than "not possible," so the barrier would be lower to be a doctor to them, while for someone with the predisposition for programming, programming would definitely be easier.
wyager 10y ago
Seriously. There has been so much public effort into encouraging kids to be programmers, and I suspect the pendulum has already been pushed way too hard in the "too many programmers" direction.
jimmaswell 10y ago
From what I've heard, the vast majority of people just can't understand the kind of thinking required to be a programmer. The rate of application to Computer Science programs has increased, but it has the highest dropout rate among other subjects, which is said to be because of the problem of programming requiring a certain predisposition. One of a few articles on the subject: https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-from-non-programming-goats/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-f... I've personally found it to hold in a few instances where I've been able to observe different people trying to learn programming - they seem to either understand it right away or not really get it. A Computer Science professor of mine said this same thing once - he said "it's an aptitude."
- jhanschoo 10y ago
  I've found the conclusions of the paper that blog post discusses to be overreaching ever since I was linked to it. The authors have since retracted the paper. http://retractionwatch.com/2014/07/18/the-camel-doesnt-have-two-humps-programming-aptitude-test-canned-for-overzealous-conclusion/ http://retractionwatch.com/2014/07/18/the-camel-doesnt-have-...
- Spooky23 10y ago
  I disagree with that. I think the quality of CS education is pathetic. I've been an adjunct instructor at a local university, and they hire industry people because they don't have enough grad students who can teach or don't speak English sufficiently to teach. The kids are great and can do anything, but they are stuck in a brain dead curriculum that's designed to haze them out before their junior year.

jrowley 10y ago

The barrier to entry to becoming a programmer is significantly lower, so hopefully the pressure will never be as bad. But as a recent CS graduate I certainly feel a lot of stress about my skills or lack thereof. Coincidentally, my twin brother is applying to med schools right now (on the order of 40). I applied to exactly 2 jobs, got an offer and took it.

jimmaswell 10y ago
The barrier to entry to call yourself a programmer or possibly make it through a Computer Science course is definitely lower, but there's potentially an immutable barrier to being a programmer regarding the ability to work with the kind of thinking required to do it, as mentioned in a comment I made elsewhere in this thread. I haven't heard the same said about becoming a doctor - I think it's considered something most people could do if they put in all the time and effort required. So, the barrier to programming might be either impassable or not there depending on who you are, while I'd assume the one to being a doctor would be difficult but doable for most people. So for those people who can't be a programmer, "difficult" would be easier than "not possible," so the barrier would be lower to be a doctor to them, while for someone with the predisposition for programming, programming would definitely be easier.

wyager 10y ago

Seriously. There has been so much public effort into encouraging kids to be programmers, and I suspect the pendulum has already been pushed way too hard in the "too many programmers" direction.

jimmaswell 10y ago

From what I've heard, the vast majority of people just can't understand the kind of thinking required to be a programmer. The rate of application to Computer Science programs has increased, but it has the highest dropout rate among other subjects, which is said to be because of the problem of programming requiring a certain predisposition. One of a few articles on the subject: https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-from-non-programming-goats/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-f... I've personally found it to hold in a few instances where I've been able to observe different people trying to learn programming - they seem to either understand it right away or not really get it. A Computer Science professor of mine said this same thing once - he said "it's an aptitude."

jhanschoo 10y ago
I've found the conclusions of the paper that blog post discusses to be overreaching ever since I was linked to it. The authors have since retracted the paper. http://retractionwatch.com/2014/07/18/the-camel-doesnt-have-two-humps-programming-aptitude-test-canned-for-overzealous-conclusion/ http://retractionwatch.com/2014/07/18/the-camel-doesnt-have-...
Spooky23 10y ago
I disagree with that. I think the quality of CS education is pathetic. I've been an adjunct instructor at a local university, and they hire industry people because they don't have enough grad students who can teach or don't speak English sufficiently to teach. The kids are great and can do anything, but they are stuck in a brain dead curriculum that's designed to haze them out before their junior year.