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What do you mean by "epigenetic code"? Epigenetic means not encoded in DNA. Heritability is hotly debated (and anything positive in that area tends to be overst

by sambe 10y ago

What do you mean by "epigenetic code"? Epigenetic means not encoded in DNA. Heritability is hotly debated (and anything positive in that area tends to be overstated in the media). Wiki has a few links on contested terms and taking caution vs enthusiasm of eg Chopra. There have also been several stories like this http://epgntxeinstein.tumblr.com/post/127416455028/over-interpreted-epigenetics-study-of-the-week http://epgntxeinstein.tumblr.com/post/127416455028/over-inte... over the last months.

Declanomous 10y ago
I realize epigenetic traits are not encoded in DNA. It's perfectly acceptable to use the term code to refer to an epigenetic "configuration". I didn't point out this fact because I figured the people reading Hacker News probably know that things can be encoded without using DNA, and I felt the distinction was needlessly pedantic. I recognize the limited scope of epigenetics, however epigenetics do play a significant role in gene expression. To say otherwise would be foolish. I know heritability of epigenetic traits is limited. I didn't claim epigenetic traits are being passed down between generations. If women are born with all of their eggs, the DNA in her eggs would DIRECTLY be affected by the environment of her mother. There is strong scientific evidence epigenetic traits are reliably inherited by each of the daughter cells during mitosis. Thus it is fully plausible the epigenetic code of a child could be affected by their grandmother. If what you know about epigenetics comes from Wikipedia, you are probably about as informed as "the media". As a formally trained lab biologist, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that biology is one of the worst scientific fields to learn about from Wikipedia, especially when it comes to discoveries in young fields like epigentics.
- photogrammetry 10y ago
  They are encoded in DNA. They are patterns in the physical structure of DNA beyond the raw A,T,G,C etc. Please be accurate in HN comments, and don't oversimplify for 'clarity' or 'readability,' especially for a topic as complex as the heritability of epigenetic traits. Additionally, Wikipedia [0] is a quite satisfactory source for information on epigenetics. Your casual dismissal of it suggests that you don't even know the basics of the topic, and shouldn't be mocking 'Joe Average' or the media for what you perceive to be their ignorance. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
  - Declanomous 10y ago
    Is this a smurf account? Why is this your first comment on a two day old account? My dismissal of the article was calculated, rather than casual. I read the Wikipedia page before commenting. That article, like many articles on Wikipedia, provides a great overview of the topic. However, it isn't a substitute for an actual education in the field. I stand by my claim that being able to read Wikipedia puts you on about the same level as the average media correspondent. I'd appreciate if you didn't insult me. You and the other comment I replied to are clearly over-estimating your knowledge, especially regarding terminology. Nowhere did I simplify anything for clarity or readability. I deliberately chose not to use jargon for readability, however my comment would have been clear and unambiguous to another biologist. Both of your comments were based on a pedantic reading of my comment that a trained biologist never would have made. Yes, the parts that make the epigenome are coded in DNA. However, the epigenome is not part of the genome. If I say "epigentic code" I'm specifically referring to the part of gene expression controlled by the epigenome. I'm not referring to the bits that end up making the epigenome (such as histones, etc) that end up making the parts of the epigenome. You each chose an incorrect interpretation in each case, when the alternative was perfectly obvious and correct.
    - photogrammetry 10y ago
      I refuse to offer a reasonable response to an ad-hominem attack.
- sambe 10y ago
  I don't think it was necessary to imply ignorance of other people. Your loosely-worded comment hinted at misunderstanding, and was potentially misleading for people who do not know much about the subject. Wikipedia correctly points out that some of the terminology and the extent of heritability is contentious. It has references in proper journals to read further about such debate if people wish to. Linking to that as a starting point does not imply this being the extent of someone's knowledge, especially when they offer other sources. If you are perturbed that your own knowledge has been underestimated, maybe try to assume the best of others?
  - Declanomous 10y ago
    To be fair, I was rather explicit in my claim of ignorance. You were the one who implied that I was ignorant. I carefully chose my words to avoid jargon, but my comment was completely unambiguous. I did not state that the epigenetic code was being inherited at any point. I'm rather certain of this, because I do not believe the epigenome is inhereted. Regardless, my use of the term "epigenetic code" is consistent with the definition on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_code
    - sambe 10y ago
      You are being deliberately impolite in almost every comment in this thread, whilst also aggressively demanding respect from others. I didn't understand what you meant, which is why I asked for clarification. Not being familiar with that term/usage made it look possible that you were yourself misunderstanding. It turns out that's not the case. I don't think my comments were incorrect or rude, so please try to keep the discussion civil.

by sambe 10y ago

Declanomous 10y ago

I realize epigenetic traits are not encoded in DNA. It's perfectly acceptable to use the term code to refer to an epigenetic "configuration". I didn't point out this fact because I figured the people reading Hacker News probably know that things can be encoded without using DNA, and I felt the distinction was needlessly pedantic. I recognize the limited scope of epigenetics, however epigenetics do play a significant role in gene expression. To say otherwise would be foolish. I know heritability of epigenetic traits is limited. I didn't claim epigenetic traits are being passed down between generations. If women are born with all of their eggs, the DNA in her eggs would DIRECTLY be affected by the environment of her mother. There is strong scientific evidence epigenetic traits are reliably inherited by each of the daughter cells during mitosis. Thus it is fully plausible the epigenetic code of a child could be affected by their grandmother. If what you know about epigenetics comes from Wikipedia, you are probably about as informed as "the media". As a formally trained lab biologist, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that biology is one of the worst scientific fields to learn about from Wikipedia, especially when it comes to discoveries in young fields like epigentics.

photogrammetry 10y ago
They are encoded in DNA. They are patterns in the physical structure of DNA beyond the raw A,T,G,C etc. Please be accurate in HN comments, and don't oversimplify for 'clarity' or 'readability,' especially for a topic as complex as the heritability of epigenetic traits. Additionally, Wikipedia [0] is a quite satisfactory source for information on epigenetics. Your casual dismissal of it suggests that you don't even know the basics of the topic, and shouldn't be mocking 'Joe Average' or the media for what you perceive to be their ignorance. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
- Declanomous 10y ago
  Is this a smurf account? Why is this your first comment on a two day old account? My dismissal of the article was calculated, rather than casual. I read the Wikipedia page before commenting. That article, like many articles on Wikipedia, provides a great overview of the topic. However, it isn't a substitute for an actual education in the field. I stand by my claim that being able to read Wikipedia puts you on about the same level as the average media correspondent. I'd appreciate if you didn't insult me. You and the other comment I replied to are clearly over-estimating your knowledge, especially regarding terminology. Nowhere did I simplify anything for clarity or readability. I deliberately chose not to use jargon for readability, however my comment would have been clear and unambiguous to another biologist. Both of your comments were based on a pedantic reading of my comment that a trained biologist never would have made. Yes, the parts that make the epigenome are coded in DNA. However, the epigenome is not part of the genome. If I say "epigentic code" I'm specifically referring to the part of gene expression controlled by the epigenome. I'm not referring to the bits that end up making the epigenome (such as histones, etc) that end up making the parts of the epigenome. You each chose an incorrect interpretation in each case, when the alternative was perfectly obvious and correct.
  - photogrammetry 10y ago
    I refuse to offer a reasonable response to an ad-hominem attack.
sambe 10y ago
I don't think it was necessary to imply ignorance of other people. Your loosely-worded comment hinted at misunderstanding, and was potentially misleading for people who do not know much about the subject. Wikipedia correctly points out that some of the terminology and the extent of heritability is contentious. It has references in proper journals to read further about such debate if people wish to. Linking to that as a starting point does not imply this being the extent of someone's knowledge, especially when they offer other sources. If you are perturbed that your own knowledge has been underestimated, maybe try to assume the best of others?
- Declanomous 10y ago
  To be fair, I was rather explicit in my claim of ignorance. You were the one who implied that I was ignorant. I carefully chose my words to avoid jargon, but my comment was completely unambiguous. I did not state that the epigenetic code was being inherited at any point. I'm rather certain of this, because I do not believe the epigenome is inhereted. Regardless, my use of the term "epigenetic code" is consistent with the definition on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_code
  - sambe 10y ago
    You are being deliberately impolite in almost every comment in this thread, whilst also aggressively demanding respect from others. I didn't understand what you meant, which is why I asked for clarification. Not being familiar with that term/usage made it look possible that you were yourself misunderstanding. It turns out that's not the case. I don't think my comments were incorrect or rude, so please try to keep the discussion civil.