4 ms·

I like the idea of a browser based IDE. I like the idea of an IDE for a lisp-like language that actually offers first-class auto-completion. I don't like the i

I like the idea of a browser based IDE. I like the idea of an IDE for a lisp-like language that actually offers first-class auto-completion. I don't like the idea of embedding it into a project. That doesn't make sense from a dependency tree way of looking at it.

quantumhobbit 10y ago
I could see embedding as a huge win as everything moves into the cloud. Just bake this into your project and push it to the test servers. Then log in and code. Imagine not having to connect your laptop to seventeen other "microservices" to be able to develop on something similar to the production environment. No more developing blind in your IDE and then falling back onto vim or nano when trying to play with a remote server. Of course make sure it is turned off for production, but the same applies to ssh and vim. Agreed on the dependency weirdness though. It does feel a bit like when that one guy keeps checking his Eclipse or Intellij config files into source controll. I hate that guy.
- hashkb 10y ago
  Is removing vi and SSH from production servers a common thing? How do you configure and operate them?
  - kedean 10y ago
    These days a lot of companies will have production systems launch from a configuration that is known to work as expected already, via QA processes. It'll be launched and configured with tools like chef, puppet, docker, and other buzzwordy technologies. When something needs to be changed, you edit the static configs, stored in a source control system, and let chef and company do the heavy lifting.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  ...But can't you do the same thing with any REPL? Run NREPL (Or your local equivalent in your Lisp dialect) on a port for internal use, and then just connect to your server with SLIME/CIDER/Geiser or whatever you non-emacs-using folk use (although why you would use another text editor for Lisp code is beyond me).
tunaoftheland 10y ago
Maybe a Clojure equivalent to NPM's "devDependencies" can manage something like this, so that it gets excluded from the final deployment JAR. It's been a while since I'd done Java/JVM development, but the dev-time vs. deploy-time dependencies configuration should be possible, I would think.
- JamesLeonis 10y ago
  The pom dependencies allow for `:scope "test"` if that's your bag. You could also wrap the :dependencies inside a special development build task (in Boot) if you choose.
- BWStearns 10y ago
  Using leiningen you can add environmental build deps. I forget the specifics but it's definitely available.
- gravypod 10y ago
  I wouldn't want to risk something this critical being in my project. I'm stupid so I try and limit my own attack surface against myself.
  - tunaoftheland 10y ago
    A very humble approach, and one that I try to subscribe to, as well. :) I think the embedding part is certainly a tradeoff. Once the development community settles on a best-practice for things like this, it becomes less of a danger of forgetting. For example, once this sort of config shows up by default in archetypes and boilerplate projects, I feel that the danger is reduced to the level of being manageable. And hopefully the port that the editor uses is blocked by default in the production environment. :)
    - gravypod 10y ago
      Yea it seems like a great project but I don't really like to think of my IDE as a dependency of my code but rather my code as a dependency of my IDE.
macmac 10y ago
Both the major Clojure / ClojureScript build tools - boot and leiningen - support dev only dependencies.

quantumhobbit 10y ago

I could see embedding as a huge win as everything moves into the cloud. Just bake this into your project and push it to the test servers. Then log in and code. Imagine not having to connect your laptop to seventeen other "microservices" to be able to develop on something similar to the production environment. No more developing blind in your IDE and then falling back onto vim or nano when trying to play with a remote server. Of course make sure it is turned off for production, but the same applies to ssh and vim. Agreed on the dependency weirdness though. It does feel a bit like when that one guy keeps checking his Eclipse or Intellij config files into source controll. I hate that guy.

hashkb 10y ago
Is removing vi and SSH from production servers a common thing? How do you configure and operate them?
- kedean 10y ago
  These days a lot of companies will have production systems launch from a configuration that is known to work as expected already, via QA processes. It'll be launched and configured with tools like chef, puppet, docker, and other buzzwordy technologies. When something needs to be changed, you edit the static configs, stored in a source control system, and let chef and company do the heavy lifting.
qwertyuiop924 10y ago
...But can't you do the same thing with any REPL? Run NREPL (Or your local equivalent in your Lisp dialect) on a port for internal use, and then just connect to your server with SLIME/CIDER/Geiser or whatever you non-emacs-using folk use (although why you would use another text editor for Lisp code is beyond me).

tunaoftheland 10y ago

Maybe a Clojure equivalent to NPM's "devDependencies" can manage something like this, so that it gets excluded from the final deployment JAR. It's been a while since I'd done Java/JVM development, but the dev-time vs. deploy-time dependencies configuration should be possible, I would think.

JamesLeonis 10y ago
The pom dependencies allow for `:scope "test"` if that's your bag. You could also wrap the :dependencies inside a special development build task (in Boot) if you choose.
BWStearns 10y ago
Using leiningen you can add environmental build deps. I forget the specifics but it's definitely available.
gravypod 10y ago
I wouldn't want to risk something this critical being in my project. I'm stupid so I try and limit my own attack surface against myself.
- tunaoftheland 10y ago
  A very humble approach, and one that I try to subscribe to, as well. :) I think the embedding part is certainly a tradeoff. Once the development community settles on a best-practice for things like this, it becomes less of a danger of forgetting. For example, once this sort of config shows up by default in archetypes and boilerplate projects, I feel that the danger is reduced to the level of being manageable. And hopefully the port that the editor uses is blocked by default in the production environment. :)
  - gravypod 10y ago
    Yea it seems like a great project but I don't really like to think of my IDE as a dependency of my code but rather my code as a dependency of my IDE.

macmac 10y ago

Both the major Clojure / ClojureScript build tools - boot and leiningen - support dev only dependencies.