6 ms·

A bit offtopic but I am very disappointed only Apple seems to have a clear plan, and makes continuous progress in careful iterations. I quit Apple precisely wh

by nextos 10y ago

A bit offtopic but I am very disappointed only Apple seems to have a clear plan, and makes continuous progress in careful iterations. I quit Apple precisely when the iPhone 1 was released due to ideological reasons, as I realised the whole ecosystem would become a walled garden. But I concede they have good products. I was looking forward to the new Pixel and Pixel XL. Google devices are the only ones that have a sane code/update policy within Android, and thus allow me to run Copperhead OS (which is the only free mobile OS I find realistic to run). However, they are insanely expensive, which IMHO risks making Copperhead a really niche option. Samsung makes decent hardware, Note fiasco aside, but their Android mods are a joke. Same for most Androids. Jolla is stuck. And fringe options like Pyra are cool but inconvenient on a daily basis...

jorgemf 10y ago
> Google devices are the only ones that have a sane code/update policy within Android They have 2 years update policy, the same as any other Android device. They sign it by contract.
- danieldk 10y ago
  They have 2 years update policy, the same as any other Android device. What do you mean? There are many Android devices that never receive an update at all.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    I think parent means updating the device with a new one, when the subscription contract renews every 2 years. Which is something else entirely.
Angostura 10y ago
> I quit Apple precisely when the iPhone 1 was released due to ideological reasons, as I realised the whole ecosystem would become a walled garden. And yet the Mac really hasn't. So why quit Apple?
- quickben 10y ago
  Probably for the same reasons my current company is migrating away from anything Microsoft. Given the past actions, one just doesn't know what the pricing will be in future, and it makes sense to spend money to move to Linux now, instead in x years under deadlines. I realize this is unrelated to the main topic, but it illustrates human foresight.
  - wtallis 10y ago
    > Given the past actions, one just doesn't know what the pricing will be in future, There's no reason to worry that Apple will resume charging for OS X updates after so many years of giving them away and after shifting to more frequent but less substantial releases.
    - quickben 10y ago
      Probably, but his point was about that ecosystem (iPhone or all?) becoming a wallet garden, and it did become one (sounds like he was referring to the phone one)
      - wtallis 10y ago
        None of Apple's platforms became a walled garden. iOS is more open than it was at first release when there was no SDK and the only sanctioned development method was web apps. OS X/macOS has acquired an optional walled garden app store but has otherwise only become more restricted for security reasons, and those restrictions can be disabled by the user. None of the predictions of doom have come to pass. Users have come to accept new mobile computing platforms that are less open than the PC platform, but there is no "whole ecosystem" that has transitioned to being a walled garden.
        glogla 10y ago
        Wait, doesn't the newest version of OS X remove the option to install applications that aren't from App Store or Certified developers? You can still enable the option through console, but the UI option is gone.
pasta 10y ago
I wish there would be more distinction between hardware and software. Just buy an iPhone and install Winedows 10 or buy a S7 and install Sailfish. Why is this so hard to do? Can't a desktop OS compile the right rom and install it via USB? Edit: I understand this is a driver issue, but it seems there isn't that much difference in hardware in the mobile world.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >I wish there would be more distinction between hardware and software. Just buy an iPhone and install Winedows 10 or buy a S7 and install Sailfish. That would be the antithesis of what makes the iPhone good though -- the hardware/software limited fragmentation + lock-step iterations.
  - pasta 10y ago
    But why not have the freedom to use iOS on the iPhone because you think it works best that way? A lot of people install Ubuntu on Macbooks for that reason. But right now it's very hard to install a different OS on your phone.
    - fpoling 10y ago
      Do you mean MacBook Air or older MacBook Pro? Ubuntu or other Linux does not work on MacBook. There is no driver for track pad and keyboard.
- mbel 10y ago
  There is no technical difficulty. The only difficulty here is to find business plan that is not negatively affected by this feature.
  - BoorishBears 10y ago
    Maintaining a consistent level of quality is the main technical difficulty, see: Android
DavidWanjiru 10y ago
"I quit Apple precisely when the iPhone 1 was released..." Just so I understand, since the iPhone was the first phone Apple made, are you saying you stopped using their PCs (and music players?) because they'd made a phone? If you were happy with their other products up to that point, how does the phone change the grand scheme of things? I'd want to hear what your ideology is.
- nextos 10y ago
  I expected iPhone to be like Newton. But it ended up being a walled garden. I realised trading a bit of my freedom for convenient user interfaces was not a good plan in the long run, so I gave up on Mac and went back to Linux. I thought Macs would become less open and less important for Apple in the future, with their marked shift to mobile. I think it was the right decision. Almost a decade later, Macs still lack components I think are key for a developer. For example, they don't ship with a package manager. I understand Apple's focus on mobile, since that's what brings most earnings, but as a developer freedom is very important to me. Not just from an ideological point of view. Also for convenience reasons. E.g., I cannot imagine going back to floating window managers. Getting a tiling one running on Mac is a bit of a hack. I prefer Arch, Nix and friends.
  - danieldk 10y ago
    For example, they don't ship with a package manager. Strictly speaking they are. Of course, it doesn't help that they put most of the system in one package :) (com.apple.pkg.Essentials). At any rate, Homebrew and MacPorts are only five minutes away. Even after 22 years of experience with various Linux distributions, I still prefer Homebrew as my package manager. (Mostly because adding your own custom formulae is so easy and new packages are in more quickly than in e.g. Debian.)
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    I'm glad they don't ship with a package manager. Home brew fills that need for me.

by nextos 10y ago

jorgemf 10y ago

> Google devices are the only ones that have a sane code/update policy within Android They have 2 years update policy, the same as any other Android device. They sign it by contract.

danieldk 10y ago
They have 2 years update policy, the same as any other Android device. What do you mean? There are many Android devices that never receive an update at all.
- coldtea 10y ago
  I think parent means updating the device with a new one, when the subscription contract renews every 2 years. Which is something else entirely.

Angostura 10y ago

> I quit Apple precisely when the iPhone 1 was released due to ideological reasons, as I realised the whole ecosystem would become a walled garden. And yet the Mac really hasn't. So why quit Apple?

quickben 10y ago
Probably for the same reasons my current company is migrating away from anything Microsoft. Given the past actions, one just doesn't know what the pricing will be in future, and it makes sense to spend money to move to Linux now, instead in x years under deadlines. I realize this is unrelated to the main topic, but it illustrates human foresight.
- wtallis 10y ago
  > Given the past actions, one just doesn't know what the pricing will be in future, There's no reason to worry that Apple will resume charging for OS X updates after so many years of giving them away and after shifting to more frequent but less substantial releases.
  - quickben 10y ago
    Probably, but his point was about that ecosystem (iPhone or all?) becoming a wallet garden, and it did become one (sounds like he was referring to the phone one)
    - wtallis 10y ago
      None of Apple's platforms became a walled garden. iOS is more open than it was at first release when there was no SDK and the only sanctioned development method was web apps. OS X/macOS has acquired an optional walled garden app store but has otherwise only become more restricted for security reasons, and those restrictions can be disabled by the user. None of the predictions of doom have come to pass. Users have come to accept new mobile computing platforms that are less open than the PC platform, but there is no "whole ecosystem" that has transitioned to being a walled garden.
      - glogla 10y ago
        Wait, doesn't the newest version of OS X remove the option to install applications that aren't from App Store or Certified developers? You can still enable the option through console, but the UI option is gone.

pasta 10y ago

I wish there would be more distinction between hardware and software. Just buy an iPhone and install Winedows 10 or buy a S7 and install Sailfish. Why is this so hard to do? Can't a desktop OS compile the right rom and install it via USB? Edit: I understand this is a driver issue, but it seems there isn't that much difference in hardware in the mobile world.

coldtea 10y ago
>I wish there would be more distinction between hardware and software. Just buy an iPhone and install Winedows 10 or buy a S7 and install Sailfish. That would be the antithesis of what makes the iPhone good though -- the hardware/software limited fragmentation + lock-step iterations.
- pasta 10y ago
  But why not have the freedom to use iOS on the iPhone because you think it works best that way? A lot of people install Ubuntu on Macbooks for that reason. But right now it's very hard to install a different OS on your phone.
  - fpoling 10y ago
    Do you mean MacBook Air or older MacBook Pro? Ubuntu or other Linux does not work on MacBook. There is no driver for track pad and keyboard.
mbel 10y ago
There is no technical difficulty. The only difficulty here is to find business plan that is not negatively affected by this feature.
- BoorishBears 10y ago
  Maintaining a consistent level of quality is the main technical difficulty, see: Android

DavidWanjiru 10y ago

"I quit Apple precisely when the iPhone 1 was released..." Just so I understand, since the iPhone was the first phone Apple made, are you saying you stopped using their PCs (and music players?) because they'd made a phone? If you were happy with their other products up to that point, how does the phone change the grand scheme of things? I'd want to hear what your ideology is.

nextos 10y ago
I expected iPhone to be like Newton. But it ended up being a walled garden. I realised trading a bit of my freedom for convenient user interfaces was not a good plan in the long run, so I gave up on Mac and went back to Linux. I thought Macs would become less open and less important for Apple in the future, with their marked shift to mobile. I think it was the right decision. Almost a decade later, Macs still lack components I think are key for a developer. For example, they don't ship with a package manager. I understand Apple's focus on mobile, since that's what brings most earnings, but as a developer freedom is very important to me. Not just from an ideological point of view. Also for convenience reasons. E.g., I cannot imagine going back to floating window managers. Getting a tiling one running on Mac is a bit of a hack. I prefer Arch, Nix and friends.
- danieldk 10y ago
  For example, they don't ship with a package manager. Strictly speaking they are. Of course, it doesn't help that they put most of the system in one package :) (com.apple.pkg.Essentials). At any rate, Homebrew and MacPorts are only five minutes away. Even after 22 years of experience with various Linux distributions, I still prefer Homebrew as my package manager. (Mostly because adding your own custom formulae is so easy and new packages are in more quickly than in e.g. Debian.)
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  I'm glad they don't ship with a package manager. Home brew fills that need for me.