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I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their

I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their cars? Kind of reminds me of when I first moved to Thailand. My (now) mother-in-law asked her daughter why I kept looking over my shoulder when driving her car, and why/if I couldn't use the side mirrors. She had literally never heard of nor understood the concept of a blind spot.

gfodor 10y ago
eh, depending on the car, often times a blind spot is just due to someone failing to adjust their mirrors properly. if you actually do it right, you should not have a blind spot. if you can see your own car in your side view mirrors, you've adjusted them wrong. if they are adjusted correctly, cars approaching on either side of your vehicle will pass from the rear view, to the side mirror, into your peripheral vision with no gap of visibility.
- stephenr 10y ago
  I've read about this supposed "solution" and the greatest thing I took away was that it trades side-of-car blind spots (which I can resolve by turning my head) for rear-of-car blind spots, which I can do nothing about, as my head doesn't rotate 180º.
  - hx87 10y ago
    > for rear-of-car blind spots How so? The only possible issue I can see about that solution is that you can't see your own car in the side mirrors and thus judging relative position is slightly more difficult. Of course, the best solution is aspherical mirrors, but for some reason they're not allowed in the USA.
    - stephenr 10y ago
      http://www.driveandstayalive.com/setting-exterior-mirrors-car/ http://www.driveandstayalive.com/setting-exterior-mirrors-ca...
      - hx87 10y ago
        The diagram in that article underestimates the viewing angle of the various mirrors in the car--my rear view mirror has far more than 90 degrees FOV, and when my side view mirrors are adjusted the "new" way I am just barely unable to see the side of my car.
  - jstanley 10y ago
    You can't see behind your car using your wing mirrors, you need to use the rear-view mirror. Even if you have the wing mirrors pointing behind your car, the sides of the car obscure your view. I like to adjust the wing mirrors so that a tiny sliver of the car is visible in the mirror, that way I can be sure I'm not missing anything.
    - stephenr 10y ago
      see the diagram on http://www.driveandstayalive.com/setting-exterior-mirrors-car/ http://www.driveandstayalive.com/setting-exterior-mirrors-ca... What you do is "normal". The suggestion from the comment I replied to is referring to the "new" way referenced on the linked page, where the mirrors are set wider.
- sbov 10y ago
  I like to be able to see a tiny sliver of my car. This way I always know how they're adjusted. Without being able to see that piece of the car, they might be adjusted too far out and I have no easy way to tell.
  - gfodor 10y ago
    well, if you see a sliver of your car, you know how they're adjusted: wrong :) seriously though, it's really easy to tell, just watch a car that is about to pass you transition across your mirrors into your peripheral vision. if there are any blind spots or periods where the car is highly visible in more than one visual source (mirror or peripheral vision) then you are seeing less than you are able to. i'm pretty sure there is no free lunch here -- if you are still able to see your car, then there is likely overlap between your rear view and your side mirror's view frustum, not to mention there is unused visual field in the side mirror anyway, so you're sacrificing visibility in your side mirror. (you should still check for the presence of a car by looking behind you if possible, or cross checking your peripheral vision with your mirrors, but it's nice to know that you don't have any blind spots if you fail to do so.)
    - stephenr 10y ago
      You keep repeating this theory that the 'new' way for adjusting mirrors solves all problems, and simply ignore that it introduces different blind spots that small vehicles (such as motorbikes or bicycles) can disappear into. Given that the article is about cyclist safety, and how it's improved by training drivers to look behind them in their blind spot, I find the irony of you suggesting this 'new' method to be amazing.
- tremon 10y ago
  if they are adjusted correctly, cars approaching on either side of your vehicle will pass from the rear view, to the side mirror, into your peripheral vision with no gap of visibility. That's incorrect. Unless you have an extremely wide (curved) side mirror, there always is a gap between the edge of the mirror and your peripheral vision. That gap is usually not large enough for a car to completely disappear (the nose of the car enters your peripheral vision before the rear end leaves the mirror), but smaller items may still disappear.
thwd 10y ago
Don't know about the American thing but what I do know is that while in Europe they teach us to turn our heads and bodies when driving, the modern world caught up with blindspotless mirrors and teach you to use them. It's much safer as people tended to turn their hands together with their bodies, effectively steering a car to the left when looking out the left window.
- stephenr 10y ago
  > the modern world caught up with blind spotless mirrors How modern are you talking? I've seen some very new cars (I think in a trip to California once, driving an SUV thing that almost needed two lanes to itself) with slightly odd mirrors - perhaps slightly concave or convex? I don't remember, but it had more view, and I vaguely remember the 'image' being distorted slightly though? Besides that, no car I've driven has had that feature, and I've owned cars from VW, Honda and Toyota all built from 2005 onwards.
- alkonaut 10y ago
  > blindspotless mirrors There are cars with 3 mirrors that don't have blind spots, without having some other tradeoff instead? That makes the blind spot radar/lidar/camera systems on new high-tech cars seem pretty dumb!
  - thwd 10y ago
    Yes, there are. Difference is radar/lidar both emit the radiation they use to see themselves. It's hard to illuminate a car's outside completely from within the car.
    - hx87 10y ago
      There is also the issue of massive C-pillars mandated by rollover standards and current fashion, which mirrors can't solve by themselves.
- hvidgaard 10y ago
  Blindspotless mirrors are not a replacement for checking your blind spot, at least I cannot reliabilily see cyclists with it.
rukuu001 10y ago
Don't know about America, but lots of Australians don't look when they open up that big slab of metal. I've also had to explain the concept of 'blind spots' in car mirrors to a lot of people - and this is something I was personally tested on for my licence.
grecy 10y ago
> She had literally never heard of nor understood the concept of a blind spot. I've done a good amount of driving in the undeveloped and developing world (40k miles AK->Argentina, now 10k miles in West Africa, going to do about 80k) Blindspots are not considered here. Driving is much more fluid, and you really only need to watch what is happening in front of you. After all, the car behind/beside you can see you much better than you can he, so just move over and he'll get out of the way. If you're going to do something really strange (stop in the middle of the road, turn where you shouldn't, back out into flowing traffic) you just tap your horn and go ahead and do it. Everyone else is paying attention and will flow around you. It really is a different way of thinking, and it's immensely impressive that everyone is paying enough attention to make it work really well (Traffic accidents are not common, and the driving conditions are so, so much more hectic than the developed world.)
- Symbiote 10y ago
  > Traffic accidents are not common Huh? Traffic accidents are very common in the developing world. Argentina has double the reported fatality rate of the USA, Nigeria has 50× the rate.
- stephenr 10y ago
  > It really is a different way of thinking, and it's immensely impressive that everyone is paying enough attention to make it work really well (Traffic accidents are not common, and the driving conditions are so, so much more hectic than the developed world.) Thailand has all that you mentioned, as well as novel things like vehicles driving the wrong way on the hard shoulder on divided highways. Thailand is #2 behind Libya when ranked by traffic accident deaths / inhabitant: 36 per 100K. On the same list USA has just under 11 per 100K. To put that another way. USA had 34K road deaths from ~324M residents. Thailand had 24K road deaths from 67M residents. So, you'll understand if I don't quite agree with the concept that doing what the fuck you want so long as you pay attention to every other fucker "works really well".
  - grecy 10y ago
    I should have clarified and said traffic accidents in towns and cities are not common. I'd be willing to bet if you removed all the accidents and deaths on the highways (where people drive like demented so-and-sos) it's not more dangerous than the good ol usa
nkrisc 10y ago
No, some Americans don't. Some of my fellow countrymen are so self-absorbed it doesn't even cross their mind their actions might impact someone else. You'll also see people opening their doors into traffic on very narrow streets.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  It's also such an easy and appealing gesture. It's a bit like drawing your gun out, you like it when you do it swift. Just reading the article I was thinking "aww noo, I can't tickle the handle and swerve out like a cat anymore. ... but they're so right I can't win"
SilasX 10y ago
American here, remember being drilled pretty hard in Driver's Ed about "hey, if you're opening a door onto an active street, look first", and I follow it pretty religiously (or did when I drove on a regular basis). I'm guessing some people get careless and it shows up in the stats. Not sure what the Dutch reach adds -- if you can't remember to look, you probably can't remember to use your right hand either.
hondo77 10y ago
American bike and car commuter here. Americans are not the greatest and checking mirrors before opening their doors. I wouldn't say all don't check but I'd estimate a slight majority do check.

gfodor 10y ago

eh, depending on the car, often times a blind spot is just due to someone failing to adjust their mirrors properly. if you actually do it right, you should not have a blind spot. if you can see your own car in your side view mirrors, you've adjusted them wrong. if they are adjusted correctly, cars approaching on either side of your vehicle will pass from the rear view, to the side mirror, into your peripheral vision with no gap of visibility.

stephenr 10y ago
I've read about this supposed "solution" and the greatest thing I took away was that it trades side-of-car blind spots (which I can resolve by turning my head) for rear-of-car blind spots, which I can do nothing about, as my head doesn't rotate 180º.
- hx87 10y ago
  > for rear-of-car blind spots How so? The only possible issue I can see about that solution is that you can't see your own car in the side mirrors and thus judging relative position is slightly more difficult. Of course, the best solution is aspherical mirrors, but for some reason they're not allowed in the USA.
  - stephenr 10y ago
    http://www.driveandstayalive.com/setting-exterior-mirrors-car/ http://www.driveandstayalive.com/setting-exterior-mirrors-ca...
    - hx87 10y ago
      The diagram in that article underestimates the viewing angle of the various mirrors in the car--my rear view mirror has far more than 90 degrees FOV, and when my side view mirrors are adjusted the "new" way I am just barely unable to see the side of my car.
- jstanley 10y ago
  You can't see behind your car using your wing mirrors, you need to use the rear-view mirror. Even if you have the wing mirrors pointing behind your car, the sides of the car obscure your view. I like to adjust the wing mirrors so that a tiny sliver of the car is visible in the mirror, that way I can be sure I'm not missing anything.
  - stephenr 10y ago
    see the diagram on http://www.driveandstayalive.com/setting-exterior-mirrors-car/ http://www.driveandstayalive.com/setting-exterior-mirrors-ca... What you do is "normal". The suggestion from the comment I replied to is referring to the "new" way referenced on the linked page, where the mirrors are set wider.
sbov 10y ago
I like to be able to see a tiny sliver of my car. This way I always know how they're adjusted. Without being able to see that piece of the car, they might be adjusted too far out and I have no easy way to tell.
- gfodor 10y ago
  well, if you see a sliver of your car, you know how they're adjusted: wrong :) seriously though, it's really easy to tell, just watch a car that is about to pass you transition across your mirrors into your peripheral vision. if there are any blind spots or periods where the car is highly visible in more than one visual source (mirror or peripheral vision) then you are seeing less than you are able to. i'm pretty sure there is no free lunch here -- if you are still able to see your car, then there is likely overlap between your rear view and your side mirror's view frustum, not to mention there is unused visual field in the side mirror anyway, so you're sacrificing visibility in your side mirror. (you should still check for the presence of a car by looking behind you if possible, or cross checking your peripheral vision with your mirrors, but it's nice to know that you don't have any blind spots if you fail to do so.)
  - stephenr 10y ago
    You keep repeating this theory that the 'new' way for adjusting mirrors solves all problems, and simply ignore that it introduces different blind spots that small vehicles (such as motorbikes or bicycles) can disappear into. Given that the article is about cyclist safety, and how it's improved by training drivers to look behind them in their blind spot, I find the irony of you suggesting this 'new' method to be amazing.
tremon 10y ago
if they are adjusted correctly, cars approaching on either side of your vehicle will pass from the rear view, to the side mirror, into your peripheral vision with no gap of visibility. That's incorrect. Unless you have an extremely wide (curved) side mirror, there always is a gap between the edge of the mirror and your peripheral vision. That gap is usually not large enough for a car to completely disappear (the nose of the car enters your peripheral vision before the rear end leaves the mirror), but smaller items may still disappear.

thwd 10y ago

Don't know about the American thing but what I do know is that while in Europe they teach us to turn our heads and bodies when driving, the modern world caught up with blindspotless mirrors and teach you to use them. It's much safer as people tended to turn their hands together with their bodies, effectively steering a car to the left when looking out the left window.

stephenr 10y ago
> the modern world caught up with blind spotless mirrors How modern are you talking? I've seen some very new cars (I think in a trip to California once, driving an SUV thing that almost needed two lanes to itself) with slightly odd mirrors - perhaps slightly concave or convex? I don't remember, but it had more view, and I vaguely remember the 'image' being distorted slightly though? Besides that, no car I've driven has had that feature, and I've owned cars from VW, Honda and Toyota all built from 2005 onwards.
alkonaut 10y ago
> blindspotless mirrors There are cars with 3 mirrors that don't have blind spots, without having some other tradeoff instead? That makes the blind spot radar/lidar/camera systems on new high-tech cars seem pretty dumb!
- thwd 10y ago
  Yes, there are. Difference is radar/lidar both emit the radiation they use to see themselves. It's hard to illuminate a car's outside completely from within the car.
  - hx87 10y ago
    There is also the issue of massive C-pillars mandated by rollover standards and current fashion, which mirrors can't solve by themselves.
hvidgaard 10y ago
Blindspotless mirrors are not a replacement for checking your blind spot, at least I cannot reliabilily see cyclists with it.

rukuu001 10y ago

Don't know about America, but lots of Australians don't look when they open up that big slab of metal. I've also had to explain the concept of 'blind spots' in car mirrors to a lot of people - and this is something I was personally tested on for my licence.

grecy 10y ago

> She had literally never heard of nor understood the concept of a blind spot. I've done a good amount of driving in the undeveloped and developing world (40k miles AK->Argentina, now 10k miles in West Africa, going to do about 80k) Blindspots are not considered here. Driving is much more fluid, and you really only need to watch what is happening in front of you. After all, the car behind/beside you can see you much better than you can he, so just move over and he'll get out of the way. If you're going to do something really strange (stop in the middle of the road, turn where you shouldn't, back out into flowing traffic) you just tap your horn and go ahead and do it. Everyone else is paying attention and will flow around you. It really is a different way of thinking, and it's immensely impressive that everyone is paying enough attention to make it work really well (Traffic accidents are not common, and the driving conditions are so, so much more hectic than the developed world.)

Symbiote 10y ago
> Traffic accidents are not common Huh? Traffic accidents are very common in the developing world. Argentina has double the reported fatality rate of the USA, Nigeria has 50× the rate.
stephenr 10y ago
> It really is a different way of thinking, and it's immensely impressive that everyone is paying enough attention to make it work really well (Traffic accidents are not common, and the driving conditions are so, so much more hectic than the developed world.) Thailand has all that you mentioned, as well as novel things like vehicles driving the wrong way on the hard shoulder on divided highways. Thailand is #2 behind Libya when ranked by traffic accident deaths / inhabitant: 36 per 100K. On the same list USA has just under 11 per 100K. To put that another way. USA had 34K road deaths from ~324M residents. Thailand had 24K road deaths from 67M residents. So, you'll understand if I don't quite agree with the concept that doing what the fuck you want so long as you pay attention to every other fucker "works really well".
- grecy 10y ago
  I should have clarified and said traffic accidents in towns and cities are not common. I'd be willing to bet if you removed all the accidents and deaths on the highways (where people drive like demented so-and-sos) it's not more dangerous than the good ol usa

nkrisc 10y ago

No, some Americans don't. Some of my fellow countrymen are so self-absorbed it doesn't even cross their mind their actions might impact someone else. You'll also see people opening their doors into traffic on very narrow streets.

agumonkey 10y ago
It's also such an easy and appealing gesture. It's a bit like drawing your gun out, you like it when you do it swift. Just reading the article I was thinking "aww noo, I can't tickle the handle and swerve out like a cat anymore. ... but they're so right I can't win"

SilasX 10y ago

American here, remember being drilled pretty hard in Driver's Ed about "hey, if you're opening a door onto an active street, look first", and I follow it pretty religiously (or did when I drove on a regular basis). I'm guessing some people get careless and it shows up in the stats. Not sure what the Dutch reach adds -- if you can't remember to look, you probably can't remember to use your right hand either.

hondo77 10y ago

American bike and car commuter here. Americans are not the greatest and checking mirrors before opening their doors. I wouldn't say all don't check but I'd estimate a slight majority do check.