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Also getting taught by amateurs, that just isn't a thing in the Netherlands. You learn to drive in a modified car (extra set of brakes, extra mirrors) with a qu

Also getting taught by amateurs, that just isn't a thing in the Netherlands. You learn to drive in a modified car (extra set of brakes, extra mirrors) with a qualified instructor next to you.

Cthulhu_ 10y ago
The downside of that is that getting a license costs a lot more - think in the range of €1500 - €2500. But that too helps with having people take it seriously, and losing your license due to e.g. excessive speeding to hurt more.
- Scarblac 10y ago
  And it's not as crucial to have one here, I only got my license at 35 (and now that I have kids, I'm really happy with it). That's not completely normal of course, but it'd be much harder to do in the US.
  - mcv 10y ago
    Plenty of city dwellers don't get their license until they have kids. I did that too. My brother doesn't have kids but only got his license when he was about 40.
mcv 10y ago
Wait, do people in the US not use professional driving instructors in modified instruction cars? Doesn't that cause a lot of accidents?
- michael_h 10y ago
  It is not mandatory in every state, I believe. However, even when not required, it is very common to use professional driving instructors with modified cars.
  - dpark 10y ago
    This is very uncommon in the United States. Probably 99% of driver training in the US is driving a family car with mom or dad in the passenger seat. Most people get very little and often no professional instruction. Certainly, when receiving professional instruction, the modified car with at least an extra brake is typical. It's just that most people never get much of this instruction.
    - michael_h 10y ago
      From dmv.org: If you are under eighteen, states requiring driver's education from a professional driving school (with behind-the-wheel instruction): CA, DL, HI, ID, IA, KS, LA, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MT, NH, NJ, NM (waiver available), NY, NC, OH, PA, SC, TX, UT, VT, WA, WI, Require the course, but not professional, behind-the-wheel instruction: CT, GA, FL, IL, KY, ME, MO, ND, RI, VA, Professional instruction not required: AL, AK, AR, CO, IN, NE, NV, OK, OR, SD, TN, WV, WY, DC So, about half of the country is required to have professional, in-car instruction. Quite common.
      - dpark 10y ago
        More common than I thought, then. Thanks. Still a huge number of people get no training and even in states that require training, it seems pretty minimal. 6 hours of driving instruction in my current state (WA) doesn't seem like a lot.
- aeharding 10y ago
  I applied for a permit (purely knowledge/eyesight test), and that allows you to drive any normal vehicle (class-A) as long as there is someone in the passenger seat over 25/at least 5 years possessing a driver's license (or something like that). I went home and took the family car out on public streets with my Dad. 6 months later, I applied for my license. Simple 15 minute public roads driving test in the same family car. Driving for the first time was scary -- one of the first streets I went down was one lane with cars parked on each side. Doing that without being used to the car's physical space (it was a large Suburban) is a little crazy.
  - mcv 10y ago
    That's quite a bit different from the Dutch situation. I've paid thousands of euros for lessons, with a professional instructor, teaching me from working the pedals and the clutch all the way through navigating complex double merges on the motorway, sending me from the motorway straight into a low-speed zone, and through every imaginable traffic situation. Before you get lessons in the car, you first need to get your theory exam (which was easy for me, but can apparently be very hard for less academically inclined people), and I think I failed the practical exam about 5 times (which is excessive; some do manage to pass the first time, though it's not unusual to fail). I felt fairly well prepared for Amsterdam traffic, but still managed to send my car into a spin on a slippery onramp that I underestimated.
    - kbutler 10y ago
      My experience as a teenager and parent is similar to the GP - and my US license is valid in the Netherlands. Note that we have the added complication that we live in areas with snow, and thus are driving on icy/snowpacked roads for a good portion of the year. I wondered if it would be cheaper (or more fun!) for dutch residents to take a trip to the US, get a valid drivers license, and bring that back to Europe rather than pay directly for a license there.
      - mcv 10y ago
        I'm not sure if it's still true, but a few decades ago, the easiest way to get a Dutch license was on Saba, one of the Dutch Antilles. Apparently, if you managed to drive around the central square on the island without any major accidents, you got your license, and it was perfectly valid as a Dutch driver's license. I knew one guy who got his license there, and he didn't dare to drive in continental Netherland. He did have a Dutch motor bike license, but he didn't feel qualified to drive a car in real traffic.
- cik2e 10y ago
  When I was taking mandatory driver's ed at 16 in the US (Boston area), the school's fleet was indeed equipped with foot brakes in the passenger seat. I'd wager a guess that all of the cars that you see with a "beginner driver" sign on the roof are like that. However, for the license test the only requirement was to have a hand brake between the front seats. I have come to believe that we give out driver's licenses way too easily in the US. One easy, but sadly no longer practical, solution would be to require that the road test is taken on a manual. Driving stick from the beginning gave me so much more awareness and reflexes that have saved me from accidents more than once.
  - tremon 10y ago
    One easy [..] solution would be to require that the road test is taken on a manual. Here in NL, we do distinguish between them: if you learn to drive (and do the exam) in a car with automatic shift, you get an annotation on your driver's license saying you're not allowed to drive a manual-shift car.
- Someone 10y ago
  It varies by state, but often you can get some license without professional instruction. Many states have a learner's permit (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learner%27s_permit#United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learner%27s_permit#United_St...) that allows any over 25 (or even 21) year old with a driver's license to teach you to drive in an unmodified car. A step up is a provisional license that may (depending on state) allow you to drive certain routes (typically to school or work and back, but also sometimes to do essential shopping) unaccompanied. That makes some sense in areas where traffic is light and distances large. I think that, in some states, you even can get a provisional license without ever having driven a car (you may have had a learner's permit for a certain period, but they don't check whether you actually used it), but of course, that's extremely unlikely to happen.

Also getting taught by amateurs, that just isn't a thing in the Netherlands. You learn to drive in a modified car (extra set of brakes, extra mirrors) with a qualified instructor next to you.

Cthulhu_ 10y ago

The downside of that is that getting a license costs a lot more - think in the range of €1500 - €2500. But that too helps with having people take it seriously, and losing your license due to e.g. excessive speeding to hurt more.

Scarblac 10y ago
And it's not as crucial to have one here, I only got my license at 35 (and now that I have kids, I'm really happy with it). That's not completely normal of course, but it'd be much harder to do in the US.
- mcv 10y ago
  Plenty of city dwellers don't get their license until they have kids. I did that too. My brother doesn't have kids but only got his license when he was about 40.

mcv 10y ago

Wait, do people in the US not use professional driving instructors in modified instruction cars? Doesn't that cause a lot of accidents?

michael_h 10y ago
It is not mandatory in every state, I believe. However, even when not required, it is very common to use professional driving instructors with modified cars.
- dpark 10y ago
  This is very uncommon in the United States. Probably 99% of driver training in the US is driving a family car with mom or dad in the passenger seat. Most people get very little and often no professional instruction. Certainly, when receiving professional instruction, the modified car with at least an extra brake is typical. It's just that most people never get much of this instruction.
  - michael_h 10y ago
    From dmv.org: If you are under eighteen, states requiring driver's education from a professional driving school (with behind-the-wheel instruction): CA, DL, HI, ID, IA, KS, LA, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MT, NH, NJ, NM (waiver available), NY, NC, OH, PA, SC, TX, UT, VT, WA, WI, Require the course, but not professional, behind-the-wheel instruction: CT, GA, FL, IL, KY, ME, MO, ND, RI, VA, Professional instruction not required: AL, AK, AR, CO, IN, NE, NV, OK, OR, SD, TN, WV, WY, DC So, about half of the country is required to have professional, in-car instruction. Quite common.
    - dpark 10y ago
      More common than I thought, then. Thanks. Still a huge number of people get no training and even in states that require training, it seems pretty minimal. 6 hours of driving instruction in my current state (WA) doesn't seem like a lot.
aeharding 10y ago
I applied for a permit (purely knowledge/eyesight test), and that allows you to drive any normal vehicle (class-A) as long as there is someone in the passenger seat over 25/at least 5 years possessing a driver's license (or something like that). I went home and took the family car out on public streets with my Dad. 6 months later, I applied for my license. Simple 15 minute public roads driving test in the same family car. Driving for the first time was scary -- one of the first streets I went down was one lane with cars parked on each side. Doing that without being used to the car's physical space (it was a large Suburban) is a little crazy.
- mcv 10y ago
  That's quite a bit different from the Dutch situation. I've paid thousands of euros for lessons, with a professional instructor, teaching me from working the pedals and the clutch all the way through navigating complex double merges on the motorway, sending me from the motorway straight into a low-speed zone, and through every imaginable traffic situation. Before you get lessons in the car, you first need to get your theory exam (which was easy for me, but can apparently be very hard for less academically inclined people), and I think I failed the practical exam about 5 times (which is excessive; some do manage to pass the first time, though it's not unusual to fail). I felt fairly well prepared for Amsterdam traffic, but still managed to send my car into a spin on a slippery onramp that I underestimated.
  - kbutler 10y ago
    My experience as a teenager and parent is similar to the GP - and my US license is valid in the Netherlands. Note that we have the added complication that we live in areas with snow, and thus are driving on icy/snowpacked roads for a good portion of the year. I wondered if it would be cheaper (or more fun!) for dutch residents to take a trip to the US, get a valid drivers license, and bring that back to Europe rather than pay directly for a license there.
    - mcv 10y ago
      I'm not sure if it's still true, but a few decades ago, the easiest way to get a Dutch license was on Saba, one of the Dutch Antilles. Apparently, if you managed to drive around the central square on the island without any major accidents, you got your license, and it was perfectly valid as a Dutch driver's license. I knew one guy who got his license there, and he didn't dare to drive in continental Netherland. He did have a Dutch motor bike license, but he didn't feel qualified to drive a car in real traffic.
cik2e 10y ago
When I was taking mandatory driver's ed at 16 in the US (Boston area), the school's fleet was indeed equipped with foot brakes in the passenger seat. I'd wager a guess that all of the cars that you see with a "beginner driver" sign on the roof are like that. However, for the license test the only requirement was to have a hand brake between the front seats. I have come to believe that we give out driver's licenses way too easily in the US. One easy, but sadly no longer practical, solution would be to require that the road test is taken on a manual. Driving stick from the beginning gave me so much more awareness and reflexes that have saved me from accidents more than once.
- tremon 10y ago
  One easy [..] solution would be to require that the road test is taken on a manual. Here in NL, we do distinguish between them: if you learn to drive (and do the exam) in a car with automatic shift, you get an annotation on your driver's license saying you're not allowed to drive a manual-shift car.
Someone 10y ago
It varies by state, but often you can get some license without professional instruction. Many states have a learner's permit (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learner%27s_permit#United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learner%27s_permit#United_St...) that allows any over 25 (or even 21) year old with a driver's license to teach you to drive in an unmodified car. A step up is a provisional license that may (depending on state) allow you to drive certain routes (typically to school or work and back, but also sometimes to do essential shopping) unaccompanied. That makes some sense in areas where traffic is light and distances large. I think that, in some states, you even can get a provisional license without ever having driven a car (you may have had a learner's permit for a certain period, but they don't check whether you actually used it), but of course, that's extremely unlikely to happen.