4 ms·

I don't understand their class definition. Does the article imply that the class divide based on income/wealth is dead and now there is a divide based on profes

by js8 10y ago

I don't understand their class definition. Does the article imply that the class divide based on income/wealth is dead and now there is a divide based on profession instead?

flukus 10y ago
I'm not even sure what differentiates any of the classes. How is creative not a subset of working and/or service classes? Wouldn't a lot of "creatives" be making less than a lot of working class?
- geebee 10y ago
  Yeah, the use of "creative" here is odd. A corporate lawyer is a creative worker, whereas an artist or writer working in a coffee shop is probably a service worker. Not hard to understand what they mean, but creative as a term is diluted here.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
panic 10y ago
There's a distinction to be made between economic class and social class: http://siderea.livejournal.com/1260265.html?format=light http://siderea.livejournal.com/1260265.html?format=light
- Ericson2314 10y ago
  There totally is, but not sure how one can get at the latter very well from census data.
  - losteverything 10y ago
    The census continually surveys households year after year. The big one of course is the decannual census. Much fewer households receive the census but they are much more rich in the questions asked.
    - Ericson2314 10y ago
      Social class is very hard to qualify—its by-definition "collectively subjective". The best I can imagine census doin is asking one to self report and report on neighbors. I imagine this would also cause an uproar.
icantdrive55 10y ago
I hope it's dead. Income should be reserved for just upper income/lower income. I shouldn't have anything to do with class. I have found zero correlation between income and class. I first heard it thrown around in college, and felt it was just out of date, and that was decades ago. It not that it slipped through the cracks of political correctness; it's just wrong. So wrong--I'm still kinda taken back when anyone uses it. Low income=poor High income=wealthy Low class=could be any sector of society? Would anyone call the Amish Low Class? Would anyone call a priest who took a vow to poverty low class? Would anyone call Donald Drump High Class? I can go on forever.
golemotron 10y ago
It's an accurate distinction: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/03/class-dismissed/307274/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/03/class-di...
geebee 10y ago
I found the class definition a bit odd. "Creative" seems to be used as a catch all for managerial, professional, and technical workers.
- hx87 10y ago
  It's basically anyone whose job is non-routine and requires significant amounts of independent decision making.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
losteverything 10y ago
Bureau of Labor Statistics data set that describes the skills generally used in occupations, was used to identify occupations that involve a high level of "thinking creatively." This skill element is defined as "developing, designing, or creating new applications, ideas, relationships, systems, or products, including artistic contributions. [0] http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/creative-class-county-codes/documentation.aspx http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/creative-class-county-...
zach 10y ago
The "Creative Class" is sort of (urban pundit and the article's co-author) Richard Florida's thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_class It tries to make events like gentrification a little more clear by focusing on working-age adult occupations. In particular, regular income/wealth statistics tend to hide trend signals because in-place retirees end up echoing the economics of the past for a long time.

by js8 10y ago

I don't understand their class definition. Does the article imply that the class divide based on income/wealth is dead and now there is a divide based on profession instead?

flukus 10y ago

I'm not even sure what differentiates any of the classes. How is creative not a subset of working and/or service classes? Wouldn't a lot of "creatives" be making less than a lot of working class?

geebee 10y ago
Yeah, the use of "creative" here is odd. A corporate lawyer is a creative worker, whereas an artist or writer working in a coffee shop is probably a service worker. Not hard to understand what they mean, but creative as a term is diluted here.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

panic 10y ago

There's a distinction to be made between economic class and social class: http://siderea.livejournal.com/1260265.html?format=light http://siderea.livejournal.com/1260265.html?format=light

Ericson2314 10y ago
There totally is, but not sure how one can get at the latter very well from census data.
- losteverything 10y ago
  The census continually surveys households year after year. The big one of course is the decannual census. Much fewer households receive the census but they are much more rich in the questions asked.
  - Ericson2314 10y ago
    Social class is very hard to qualify—its by-definition "collectively subjective". The best I can imagine census doin is asking one to self report and report on neighbors. I imagine this would also cause an uproar.

icantdrive55 10y ago

I hope it's dead. Income should be reserved for just upper income/lower income. I shouldn't have anything to do with class. I have found zero correlation between income and class. I first heard it thrown around in college, and felt it was just out of date, and that was decades ago. It not that it slipped through the cracks of political correctness; it's just wrong. So wrong--I'm still kinda taken back when anyone uses it. Low income=poor High income=wealthy Low class=could be any sector of society? Would anyone call the Amish Low Class? Would anyone call a priest who took a vow to poverty low class? Would anyone call Donald Drump High Class? I can go on forever.

golemotron 10y ago

It's an accurate distinction: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/03/class-dismissed/307274/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/03/class-di...

geebee 10y ago

I found the class definition a bit odd. "Creative" seems to be used as a catch all for managerial, professional, and technical workers.

hx87 10y ago
It's basically anyone whose job is non-routine and requires significant amounts of independent decision making.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

losteverything 10y ago

Bureau of Labor Statistics data set that describes the skills generally used in occupations, was used to identify occupations that involve a high level of "thinking creatively." This skill element is defined as "developing, designing, or creating new applications, ideas, relationships, systems, or products, including artistic contributions. [0] http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/creative-class-county-codes/documentation.aspx http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/creative-class-county-...

zach 10y ago

The "Creative Class" is sort of (urban pundit and the article's co-author) Richard Florida's thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_class It tries to make events like gentrification a little more clear by focusing on working-age adult occupations. In particular, regular income/wealth statistics tend to hide trend signals because in-place retirees end up echoing the economics of the past for a long time.