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Odd that you say this about helmets. It only takes one mistake, one cyclist not paying attention, one mechanical fault, one swerving car or an obstacle in the r

• mafribe 10y ago
  Typical bicyle helmets don't help much with a face-first landing on the tarmac, your chin takes most of the pounding. I can confidently say that from repeated ... 'experiments'. In contrast, a motorcyle helmet that also wraps around the chin would be of great use in most bicycle accidents. 185 cyclists died A more interesting statistic would be: how many of those deaths would have been prevented by a bicycle helmet?
  • deanclatworthy 10y ago
    That depends entirely on how you fall off your bike, which depends on your speed and numerous other factors. The problem here is that it's pretty hard to tell after the fact whether a death would have been prevented by a helmet. We can guess, speculate but it's hard to measure the exact forces exerted - and also how someone's biological material will react to that (the brain). In all my reading around this issue, those that don't want to wear helmets don't tend to wear them for fashion reasons, and interpret the stats they read to insinuate that helmets don't save lives. They don't like how it looks, feels, or that they will be teased for wearing one. I'd rather live to see the next day than care about what a helmet looks like. And one other point to end on, it's not just deaths we're talking about here. Many people have suffered brain injuries from the impact of falling off their bike. Imagine there was something you could put on your head that would prevent that impact.
    • Symbiote 10y ago
      > I'd rather live to see the next day than care about what a helmet looks like. Do you wear one while walking? Or hiking? There's also an increased risk of brain injury from these activities. Most people I know don't wear one, because the combination of the discomfort, hassle, inconvenience and appearance aren't worth the perceived low increased risk of cycling compared to, for example, walking.
      • grogenaut 10y ago
        I wear one when rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, skiing, motorcycle, bicycle, skateboard, football, etc. Pretty much any time I go over 8mph. I even considered one in aussie rules football but they were hard to find in the states. I found that helmets for winter sports are better than hats. They don't soak up sweat like a hat does so do better in cold and are better vented than a hat as well. They also really help with the trees. It's also interesting that they used to be "nerdy" on ski slopes in the US, then several major states required everyone under 18 to wear them. Now 80% (feels like) of kids wear them all the time, so you actually look wierd if you don't wear a helmet. I definitely wear them on bikes and have needed them (and bounced off of them) many times. I tend to tuck when I go off the bike so I bounce the back of my helmet. There's a heart warming sensation of relief when you hear that hollow thunk sound of the helmet taking the blow on the pavement, tree, hardpack, rock, etc, with no bad effects on you. Also on my commute I tend to hit 45 mph multiple times in the first 2 miles (I drop 500 ft in 2 miles and I feel it's safer to do 35 like the cars on the nicely paved winding suburban road than to sit in the bike lane). Finally... I made this guy (who hates helmets) put one on after the kite pulled him up into the goal posts on a previous run. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PGKG5ZFMQg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PGKG5ZFMQg He thanked me a year later.
        • ricardobeat 10y ago
          That's a completely different situation than the average Dutch cyclist faces. First, there are no hills to be seen, so not that easy to pick up speed. Especially on a city bike which is 99% of the fleet. It's unusual to even reach 20km/h. People carry their shopping, kids, furniture and pets in them. They cycle in whatever they are wearing - suits, skirts, jeans, whatever; the fact you can just hop on a bike without having to gear up makes it much more attractive to everyday life. There was also this study from a university in Utrecht showing that [in the Netherlands] cyclists wearing helmets are more careless and cause more accidents, nullifying any safety benefit...
  • eridius 10y ago
    There are plenty of ways to have an accident that don't involve face-planting. The one time I flew over my handlebars, I landed on my left shoulder (breaking my collarbone), and my helmet probably prevented me from getting a concussion when the side of my head bounced off the road.
    • Lio 10y ago
      Bike helmets are designed to protect against skull fractures, they don't protect against concussion. For concussion you'd probably want something which is able to decelerate the brain inside the skull gently like an airbag.
      • ptaipale 10y ago
        Sure they protect against concussion. They don't prevent all concussions, but a helmet clearly diminishes the impact which causes concussion.
  • javier2 10y ago
    I think the more interesting stats would be in the are of non-fatal injuries. If you die, the hit was probably pretty hard, but there are loads more people getting injured but not life-threatening. Breaking boths legs and a concussion would not be part of that stat.
  • ptaipale 10y ago
    >A more interesting statistic would be: how many of those deaths would have been prevented by a bicycle helmet? If we assume that this Canadian study would apply as such to Netherlands: http://www.cmaj.ca/content/early/2012/10/15/cmaj.120988.full.pdf http://www.cmaj.ca/content/early/2012/10/15/cmaj.120988.full... the figure would be (71/129)×185×(100-65)% = 35 of these people would have not have been killed. Of course, the figures are probably not quite right for Netherlands. For instance, in Canada a majority of bicycle fatalities involve another vehicle, whereas where I live (Finland), this is not true because we have separate bike/pedestrian paths in many places. Like the Netherlands. This actually increases the effectiveness of helmets, because fewer of the accidents are about being crushed by a big vehicle, and more of them are falls. And the physics of falling off your bike are not that different and the ground is about as hard in Canada as in Netherlands.
    • ralfn 10y ago
      >And the physics of falling off your bike are not that different and the ground is about as hard in Canada as in Netherlands. You would think that would be true, but no. 1. The ground in Holland is flat. 2. The bike is heavy. 3. The bike is the type where you are sitting up (not leaning forward like a race bike). So, when a dutch person bikes they are going no faster than 15 km/h. When they stretch their legs they are standing still. When they fall to the side they generally fall into grass or sidewalks (which are thin stones on top of moisty earth), that can actually absorb quite a lot of energy/momentum.
      • kutkloon7 10y ago
        A guy I saw a few days ago got one of those heavy chain-type locks in his frontwheel while riding his bike a few days ago. Of course, his bike stopped instantly. He was carrying a painting, so driving with one hand. Amazingly, he didn't even fall to the ground. It really takes a lot of effort to land on the top of your head; I imagine that being hit or run over by a car causes way, way more serious accidents.
        • ralfn 10y ago
  • rwmj 10y ago
    A more interesting statistic is: How many more people would have died through pollution / heart disease if everyone drove cars instead of cycling?
    • NetStrikeForce 10y ago
      But wearing helmet doesn't cause more pollution, so I guess that statistic is very good for a different discussion :-)
      • rwmj 10y ago
        You are partly wrong. Encouraging (or even worse, enforcing) cycle helmets is known to reduce the number of people cycling. Since they presumably still need to get around, they're going to use other forms of transport, some of which add pollution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet_laws#Effects_on_the_amount_of_cycling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet_laws#Effects_on...
        • NetStrikeForce 10y ago
          Well, no. I'm not wrong: Using helmets does not increase pollution. Forcing helmets onto people seems to increase pollution (by the reduced use of cycling), so the problem in fact should be: A lack of proper health and safety education leads (indirectly?) to more pollution. That's why I think that statistic is very good for a different discussion - I don't think it should belong into "Should people wear helmets while cycling?", it belongs into "Should we force people to wear helmets while cycling?". The answer to those two questions could be YES and NO without being contradictory really.
          • ptaipale 10y ago
            At least in [0], the reduced use of cycling was only an issue for teenagers. Children and adults cycled more after mandatory helmet law; people who most fiercely oppose putting protective gear on their head seem to be 12-17 years old. I'm not really saying that helmets should be mandatory, but the attitudes and arguments remind me a lot about the time when mandatory seatbelt laws were coming to force. People will be trapped in burning cars and sink in vehicles and can't get out, and it will mess up the cothes, etc. [0] Effects of the compulsory bicycle helmet wearing law in victoria during its first three years, Cameron, Newstead, Vulcan, Finch / http://114.111.144.247/Presto/content/GetDoc.axd?ctID=MjE1ZTI4YzctZjc1YS00MzQ4LTkyY2UtMDJmNTgxYjg2ZDA5&rID=NjA5NA==&pID=MTQ3Ng==&attchmnt=VHJ1ZQ== http://114.111.144.247/Presto/content/GetDoc.axd?ctID=MjE1ZT...
  • Kim_Bruning 10y ago
    That's frankly not a lot of cyclists, compared to the number of bicyclists and the number of trips made. An even more interesting statistic is how many of those deaths would have been prevented by even better bicycle infrastructure. That's one statistic dutch counties often scrutinize closely, IIRC.
• tluyben2 10y ago
  Like said; most accidents I have seen with near fatal results (mostly in Amsterdam where that happen(s)(ed) quite a bit), the helmet would've helped nothing at all. It's usually someone falling and then getting driven over/into. But yeah, I have no stats; not sure if anyone has, about if they do any good. I also said for good or bad; like smoking or drinking or processed meat eating; you collect the info you can and believe, interpret it and make your choice; it's your life. I'm just saying that most people I know wouldn't be caught dead (...) with one of those things on even if it would mean they are less safe.
• Scarblac 10y ago
  Note that many accidents happen with people going very fast on race bikes, and those people do wear helmets. Normal Dutch bikes for everyday use go much slower (say 15-20 km/h), and you sit in an upright position. That gives you a much better overview of the road (you look over all the cars) and it also makes it easier to recover from a near fall. Also 185 dead isn't much given that the 17 million Dutch use the bicycle on average 300 times per year for a total mean distance of 878 km per person per year (http://www.fietsersbond.nl/de-feiten/fietsen-cijfers#1 http://www.fietsersbond.nl/de-feiten/fietsen-cijfers#1)
• johanvts 10y ago
  In Denmark. The percentage of people here wearing helmets seems to be dropping again after having been on the rise for the past few years (based on my anecdotal evidence of biking around copenhagen), but it's still relatively rare. I know at least 3 people who had simple accidents while not wearing helmets and while they did not die they suffered severe concussions that take years to fully recover from (if ever). One guy was unable to work for close to a year, and still 3 years later suffer frequent intense headaches. You don't have to die in an accident in order for it to be something you really should try to avoid.
  • imjustsaying 10y ago
    Do bike helmets protect against concussions?
    • johanvts 10y ago
      Yes, I think that is one of their main purposes. It basically takes the impact energy and distributes it over a larger area and over longer time, reducing the risk of permanent brain damage. This website has some charts of a lab experiment showing the difference in the energy spike felt by the brain. http://www.bhsi.org/general.htm http://www.bhsi.org/general.htm
    • echlebek 10y ago
      I fell onto my bike helmet, on pavement, splitting it in half. I can tell you from personal experience that helmets definitely protect against concussion.
• upofadown 10y ago
  Well for better or worse, people don't like to wear helmets. Cyclists are actually pretty good with helmet use compared to pedestrians and car users.
• aidos 10y ago
  You can argue about the pros and cons of wearing helmets - plenty of people (like me) choose not to wear them. One thing that's fairly apparent is that making people wear them decreases cyclist numbers dramatically.
• awjr 10y ago
  People seem to ignore the elephant in the room with this one. By making helmet use pro-choice, what health benefits does a nation gain? How does this impact obesity? The cost of health to the nation? Productivity? Mental health? Pollution related problems? The bicycle is a very simple solution to a lot of problems.
• speleding 10y ago
  Wearing a helmet in your car would prevent a lot of injuries as well, and nobody does that. This is just a risk/reward trade off and I (as a Dutch cyclist) feel a few additional deaths on the total population is not worth the effort. And the things are uncomfortable and impractical: what are you going to do with it when you arrive on your destination? Lug it around all day? Bring a bag everywhere?
  • arve0 10y ago
    Or hang it on the bicycle?
    • mjhagen 10y ago
      That would certainly not get stolen.
      • crummy 10y ago
        You're already locking your bike, you can loop the lock through one of your helmet straps (I do and have never had a helmet stolen, except when the whole bike was).
        • avar 10y ago
          You can trivially undo helmet straps, because it needs to be adjusted it's not one solid piece of webbing. It stops someone from just picking your helmet up and walking away with it, but it takes no more than half a minute to undo the strap, so it's not going to stop someone intent on stealing it.
          • GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
            Put the lock cable through one of the holes in the top of the helmet. Now you can't get it off without breaking it.
            • 10y ago
• mcv 10y ago
  185 bike deaths is a lot less than the roughly 500 car deaths every year. Keep in mind that people bike a lot here. I ride my bike every single day. I rarely use a car. Never had a meaningful accident. In countries where helmets are mandatory, cyclists tend to run a much bigger risk of serious injury. Whatever Netherland is doing differently is clearly working. Claiming that Netherland should adapt to countries that are doing worse is ridiculous. Netherland takes bike safety very seriously. Don't just assume that you know better than the country that has the highest bike density in the world. I have seen research about the effect of bike helmets, and while some research showed that helmets offered substantial benefit in very specific, artificial situations, other research showed that those benefit didn't translate to practical real life situations. And research that only tests how much a helmet protects your skill, tends to ignore the impact of the helmet in preventing the accident in the first place. Some research suggests that simply wearing a helmet can make people more reckless, putting more trust in their helmet than in their own carefulness.
  • Someone 10y ago
    Nitpick: it is not 185 vs roughly 500, but 185 versus 621 in total, of which 225 were in cars.
• ralfn 10y ago
  >185 cyclists died last year in the Netherlands [1]. Of the almost 8+ million people biking almost every day. Just to put that in perspective. And that's not even counting the tourists, which likely skew the results a bit (since they will have less experience and likely won't be sober at all)
  • Someone 10y ago
    Also, of those 185, 48 were 70-80 years old, and 51 were 80 years and older, so in total over half were over 70 (compared to only 17 who were under 20 years old) It's a fairly safe bet most of those over 70's weren't going so fast that hitting a car or the ground hit much harder than a hit or a fall while walking would. E-bikes may be changing that; that is being studied and may lead to changes in helmet laws. I think it is more likely it will lead to changes in road design and to recommendations to certain groups to wear a helmet.
• kutkloon7 10y ago
  It suprises me that people, in this time of environmental problems, seriously want to deter even more people from riding bikes. Traffic accidents will always happen, and modern countries are only getting safer, but environmental problems are only getting worse. How would you feel if you had to wear a helmet every time you walk outside? That's a bit like how the Dutch people would feel if they had to wear a helmet on their bikes. Arguably, it would help to avoid some injuries, but it is just not worth it. People in the Netherlands don't just bike to work or school; they bike when they go out (yes, even after drinking), when they visit friends, when they have a doctors appointment. Bringing a helmet every time would both be a major inconvenience and make you seem like a huge dork. People usually bike pretty slowly, and there are not many accidents. I live in one a city where the biker density is one of the highest in the Netherlands, and I have never been in an accident. I would never wear a helmet every time I would ride my bike. I would even argue it would reduce my quality of life.