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In my experience taking the lane stops people from assuming that they have space to pass except by changing lanes. Car drivers mostly take their cues from the c

by mabcat 10y ago

In my experience taking the lane stops people from assuming that they have space to pass except by changing lanes. Car drivers mostly take their cues from the cyclist. If you're cycling in the gutter it signals for car drivers to try to overtake you in the same lane. Why would you be in the gutter, except to yield the rest of your lane to cars? There's not space for a car and a bicycle in the same lane. A car will always have to at least partially change lanes to overtake safely. You're better off being 2/3 of a lane over, so your head is in the same position as every other driver, and car drivers change lanes completely to pass as they would for any other vehicle.

jacquesm 10y ago
Sure, that's the theory. But in practice some drivers will see it as an aggressive move to take 'their' lane. They are wrong, no doubt, but it doesn't pay off to go head-to-head with a bunch of bricks when you're an egg. Better to play it safe. Keep in mind that you're entirely unprotected. The best way to stay safe in traffic with vehicles is to assume that (1) you're invisible (2) made of eggshells and (3) everybody behind you is out to get you. If you're a young burly male you might get away with this but keep in mind that advocating this strategy for all cyclists (little old ladies, kids, etc) would definitely not work. In a car centric society the last thing you want to do is to occupy a full lane sized for vehicles but going 1/3rd their speed. It is an open invitation for aggression against your person, plenty of people see you riding a bike already as such an invitation it certainly isn't going to get better by occupying 'their' lane.
- foobarian 10y ago
  I commuted by bike for 10 years following these rules and never had an accident involving moving cars. I feel I always had good situational awareness and control of the situation even in complicated intersections. But I've been doored 3 times in that period, the last time being a very close call where a passenger in a car standing at a red light decided to get out, and so I decided to give up the bike. It feels ironic that out of all the cycling scenarios I could be in, I feel I have the least control/awareness with doors opening. In retrospect I should have applied your 3 rules to car doors as well, and move at a leisurely walking speed when in door range.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    The problem with the doors is that unlike all the other traffic scenarios you could be involved in they contain some surprise elements. For one it is stopped traffic (something that is normally safe) that suddenly becomes dangerous, also it can happen very suddenly. One moment a car is an immobile object, the next it throws a 3' obstacle directly into your path, and if you're close enough there simply isn't time to react. It's next to impossible to safely avoid a door if you are less than your stopping distance away from the door when it is thrown. After all, taking into account that hitting a door is bad it is arguably less bad than trying to avoid it by swerving around it and getting clipped by a car behind you that doesn't respond in time (assuming it even has room and time enough to respond). Ironically, electric vehicles are more dangerous in this sense than combustion powered ones because they are extremely quiet. Every time someone in my car is about to open any doors I automatically say 'careful for bikes and pedestrians'. Some people are annoyed by this but I still do it and it has already saved the situation more than once. I'm currently recovering from a one-sided cycling accident so you can take that as proof that cycling is a dangerous activity, no matter what (right leg broken in 6 places, 2 chunks of steel and 13 screws later and I can re-learn how to walk, the accident happened Aug 7th, I'm already back on the bike and driving but it was a tough battle to get to this point this quick).
- stouset 10y ago
  > Sure, that's the theory. But in practice some drivers will see it as an aggressive move to take 'their' lane. Having commuted by bicycle for almost a decade, this is the theory. In practice, if you take the lane, virtually every driver will simply move over one lane to pass. Some consideration needs to be taken, of course — if doing this is causing traffic behind you, you should move over and let cars pass (or bike faster, or find an alternate route). But doing this causes an immediate and unmistakable difference in the behavior of drivers. If you're driving in the gutter, you will get buzzed multiple times in a day as drivers attempt to squeeze by you in the lane. If you're claiming the lane, you might get buzzed once a month. No joke. I know which I prefer.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    You are likely young and able to keep up with traffic. But not everybody is young and able to keep up with traffic. Older people will cycle slower (and are far more vulnerable if they should fall or get into an accident), and kids are going to get clobbered if they should occupy whole lanes. Keep in mind that any advice that you give for a class of traffic should apply equally to all members of that class, not just to you. And once a situation develops (such as causing traffic behind you) it is a little late to 'bike faster' (which may simply not be possible depending on age / wind / other conditions) or 'find an alternate route'.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - scottishfiction 10y ago
      Your comments suggest someone who doesn't do a lot of cycling in traffic. Correct me if I'm wrong. You say that young or old cyclists will get 'clobbered' - what do you mean by this? That a car approaching from the rear will see them riding assertively and simply plow in to them? If not that then what? That the cars will pass them closely as they are forced to move further in to the other lane? If that's your assertion then as others have stated, an assertive lane position is exactly what will save you in this situation - as you have the room on the inside to avoid the passing car.
- laurencerowe 10y ago
  > But in practice some drivers will see it as an aggressive move to take 'their' lane. [...] In a car centric society the last thing you want to do is to occupy a full lane sized for vehicles but going 1/3rd their speed. I think this overestimates the antagonism car drivers feel towards cyclists and underestimates the danger of simply not being noticed. When I cycled, I usually found that cars would give me as much space when overtaking as the space I left to the kerb. Cycling a meter from the kerb felt much safer than cycling a foot from the kerb. It forced drivers to make a positive decision to pass me.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    I've had (full) beercans thrown at me in traffic in the USA just for cycling, I'd rather avoid playing dodgem with SUVs and pick-up trucks driven by people that feel that roads are not for sharing with vehicles other than cars. To boldly occupy a whole lane is something that might work in a few cities that have considerable bike traffic but I don't think that is a universal rule to live by as a cyclist.
    - newjersey 10y ago
      I would still encourage everyone to stop, note the license plate number of the vehicle, and call police dispatch if anyone throws beer can at you. This is wrong at multiple levels and those people don't belong behind the wheel. I am not fond of enforcement. I'd rather everyone just do the right thing because it is the right thing to do but some people clearly don't get it. Please report incidents like this.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      Even in the parts of the US that have said in their laws that cyclists should occupy the whole lane when it's unsafe for them to do otherwise you'll find police giving them tickets because those police don't understand the law and don't understand the safety of it.

by mabcat 10y ago

jacquesm 10y ago

Sure, that's the theory. But in practice some drivers will see it as an aggressive move to take 'their' lane. They are wrong, no doubt, but it doesn't pay off to go head-to-head with a bunch of bricks when you're an egg. Better to play it safe. Keep in mind that you're entirely unprotected. The best way to stay safe in traffic with vehicles is to assume that (1) you're invisible (2) made of eggshells and (3) everybody behind you is out to get you. If you're a young burly male you might get away with this but keep in mind that advocating this strategy for all cyclists (little old ladies, kids, etc) would definitely not work. In a car centric society the last thing you want to do is to occupy a full lane sized for vehicles but going 1/3rd their speed. It is an open invitation for aggression against your person, plenty of people see you riding a bike already as such an invitation it certainly isn't going to get better by occupying 'their' lane.

foobarian 10y ago
I commuted by bike for 10 years following these rules and never had an accident involving moving cars. I feel I always had good situational awareness and control of the situation even in complicated intersections. But I've been doored 3 times in that period, the last time being a very close call where a passenger in a car standing at a red light decided to get out, and so I decided to give up the bike. It feels ironic that out of all the cycling scenarios I could be in, I feel I have the least control/awareness with doors opening. In retrospect I should have applied your 3 rules to car doors as well, and move at a leisurely walking speed when in door range.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  The problem with the doors is that unlike all the other traffic scenarios you could be involved in they contain some surprise elements. For one it is stopped traffic (something that is normally safe) that suddenly becomes dangerous, also it can happen very suddenly. One moment a car is an immobile object, the next it throws a 3' obstacle directly into your path, and if you're close enough there simply isn't time to react. It's next to impossible to safely avoid a door if you are less than your stopping distance away from the door when it is thrown. After all, taking into account that hitting a door is bad it is arguably less bad than trying to avoid it by swerving around it and getting clipped by a car behind you that doesn't respond in time (assuming it even has room and time enough to respond). Ironically, electric vehicles are more dangerous in this sense than combustion powered ones because they are extremely quiet. Every time someone in my car is about to open any doors I automatically say 'careful for bikes and pedestrians'. Some people are annoyed by this but I still do it and it has already saved the situation more than once. I'm currently recovering from a one-sided cycling accident so you can take that as proof that cycling is a dangerous activity, no matter what (right leg broken in 6 places, 2 chunks of steel and 13 screws later and I can re-learn how to walk, the accident happened Aug 7th, I'm already back on the bike and driving but it was a tough battle to get to this point this quick).
stouset 10y ago
> Sure, that's the theory. But in practice some drivers will see it as an aggressive move to take 'their' lane. Having commuted by bicycle for almost a decade, this is the theory. In practice, if you take the lane, virtually every driver will simply move over one lane to pass. Some consideration needs to be taken, of course — if doing this is causing traffic behind you, you should move over and let cars pass (or bike faster, or find an alternate route). But doing this causes an immediate and unmistakable difference in the behavior of drivers. If you're driving in the gutter, you will get buzzed multiple times in a day as drivers attempt to squeeze by you in the lane. If you're claiming the lane, you might get buzzed once a month. No joke. I know which I prefer.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  You are likely young and able to keep up with traffic. But not everybody is young and able to keep up with traffic. Older people will cycle slower (and are far more vulnerable if they should fall or get into an accident), and kids are going to get clobbered if they should occupy whole lanes. Keep in mind that any advice that you give for a class of traffic should apply equally to all members of that class, not just to you. And once a situation develops (such as causing traffic behind you) it is a little late to 'bike faster' (which may simply not be possible depending on age / wind / other conditions) or 'find an alternate route'.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - scottishfiction 10y ago
    Your comments suggest someone who doesn't do a lot of cycling in traffic. Correct me if I'm wrong. You say that young or old cyclists will get 'clobbered' - what do you mean by this? That a car approaching from the rear will see them riding assertively and simply plow in to them? If not that then what? That the cars will pass them closely as they are forced to move further in to the other lane? If that's your assertion then as others have stated, an assertive lane position is exactly what will save you in this situation - as you have the room on the inside to avoid the passing car.
laurencerowe 10y ago
> But in practice some drivers will see it as an aggressive move to take 'their' lane. [...] In a car centric society the last thing you want to do is to occupy a full lane sized for vehicles but going 1/3rd their speed. I think this overestimates the antagonism car drivers feel towards cyclists and underestimates the danger of simply not being noticed. When I cycled, I usually found that cars would give me as much space when overtaking as the space I left to the kerb. Cycling a meter from the kerb felt much safer than cycling a foot from the kerb. It forced drivers to make a positive decision to pass me.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  I've had (full) beercans thrown at me in traffic in the USA just for cycling, I'd rather avoid playing dodgem with SUVs and pick-up trucks driven by people that feel that roads are not for sharing with vehicles other than cars. To boldly occupy a whole lane is something that might work in a few cities that have considerable bike traffic but I don't think that is a universal rule to live by as a cyclist.
  - newjersey 10y ago
    I would still encourage everyone to stop, note the license plate number of the vehicle, and call police dispatch if anyone throws beer can at you. This is wrong at multiple levels and those people don't belong behind the wheel. I am not fond of enforcement. I'd rather everyone just do the right thing because it is the right thing to do but some people clearly don't get it. Please report incidents like this.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Even in the parts of the US that have said in their laws that cyclists should occupy the whole lane when it's unsafe for them to do otherwise you'll find police giving them tickets because those police don't understand the law and don't understand the safety of it.