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The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicycl

• BoringCode 10y ago
  So where should the cars park then? Parking is a real issue in large cities and we won't solve it by removing even more spots. Other solutions (which are potentially more expensive) should be looked into before we consider removing street parking.
  • zik 10y ago
    In big cities these days most parking is off street anyway. A trend to remove on street parking in favor of better pedestrian safety and improved traffic flow can only be a positive.
    • colmvp 10y ago
      I live in a big city that is having a similar debate of bike lanes sacrificing space for on-street parking. And it's a frustrating debate. Look, I drive. I love parking spaces because I hate looking for parking. But I also know that as more people move into the city, we need alternative modes of transportation. It's simply unsustainable to add more parking spaces in the hopes of alleviating the lack of supply. We're better off increasing usage of alternative forms of transportation by installing bike lanes (which when properly designed, unequivocally encourages bike usage) and increasing funding for mass transit. And on-street parking can be so frustrating on major streets as people have to brake and reverse into a spot, stopping traffic. Or they crawl at a much slower pace as they try finding an open spot. Or they force awkward lane changes as there is inconsistencies as to whether or not the lane is drivable/parkable.
  • lucaspiller 10y ago
    The other day somebody posted something saying how more lanes in a road will just cause more people to drive, so won't do anything to reduce traffic. I'd imagine it works the same for parking and even in reverse.
    • flukus 10y ago
      Were they talking about induced demand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand ?
    • closeparen 10y ago
      >will just cause more people to drive They obviously preferred to do so (since they chose it), and maybe the new lane let some more people afford the house/commute-time pair they wanted. It's true that induced demand means aggregate travel times don't go down, but more people getting where they need to go in the same amount of time is a victory too.
  • umanwizard 10y ago
    People shouldn't be trying to drive and park in major city centers. Exceptions can be made for deliveries. I live in a major city and I don't have a car. Parking is no issue for me at all :)
    • closeparen 10y ago
      Ah, but - astronomical housing costs in the small radius of convenient non-driving commutes to the downtown business district - exposure to high crime and dysfunctional public schools (possibly requiring the purchase of private K12) in said radius - travel times to common destinations by public transit 2-3x driving, meaning less engagement with the rest of the world or less free time - One of a) standing on a lurching vehicle with an arm raised over your head, rather than sitting in a vehicle as comfortable and smooth as you care to make it b) cardio, outdoors in whatever the weather happens to be, with no shower at the not-home end of the trip c) the cost of another person's time to drive you, in addition to the usual fuel + wear and tear required to get anywhere are all issues of parking, in that they can all be avoided with more parking and are all exacerbated/forced to the forefront of more people's lives with less parking. If you are in a US city and truly exposed to none of these, please let me know which one so I can move there.
      • cerebellum42 10y ago
        To be fair, a lot of these problems are induced by having such car-focused cities in the first place. That extreme focus on making cities car-compatible makes them less livable for every other user of the infrastructure (cyclists, pedestrians, public transport users). In my opinion the right way to go would be to drastically improve public transport (so it actually IS a competitive option) and in an overlapping process reduce car infrastructure and replace it with pedestrian/cycling/public transport infrastructure.
      • hx87 10y ago
        I don't know about you, but if 2 hour commutes by car are acceptable for people, I don't know why 2 hour walks (~8 miles) or 2 hour bike rides (~20 miles) are not. b) hasn't ever been a problem for me regardless of the weather--a wipe down with bath wipes and a change of clothes (plus a cold drink) was always sufficient.
  • lmm 10y ago
    Remove street parking, narrow the streets (the space that used to be parking spaces doesn't need to be part of the street). Use some of the reclaimed space to build space-efficient parking (i.e. a high-rise parking garage), sell some of what's left to cover the cost, use the remainder for things of civic value (whatever we consider those to be - parks, museums, low-income housing, cafes...)
• paulddraper 10y ago
  "As a bicyclist...As a pedestrian...As a driver" Uh huh. 100% agree. Street parking is especially dangerous because it is not sufficient to look for the presence of a car; I must look for the presence of a car, and continue looking until I ascertain whether it's one of the dozens of parked vehicles. But...street parking is also very convenient. Streets are very close to where people want to get to; no need to walk from a parking garage a half mile away. And practically speaking, it would be hard to imagine how to change existing cities.
  • ehnto 10y ago
    I have never found street parking convenient. It will depend on where you live but I tend to find that it's never available so you wind through the streets and inevitably end up far from where you wanted to be. Thinking specifically of CBD type locations, removing street parking and having more mobility on foot or bicycle works better for me because I can drive straight to a big parking building, then move swiftly to where I need to be.
    • mercer 10y ago
      A citywide bike program with pick-up points in logical places might solve that.
    • huehehue 10y ago
      "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." Street parking is very convenient for the people that get it.
• cft 10y ago
  In San Francisco, especially in the southern neighborhoods, they simply park in the bike lanes: pick up trucks, cleaning services vans, even ice cream carts! Park for 15, 30, 45 minutes.
  • jacquesm 10y ago
    That's an enforcement problem. If you did this in Amsterdam you'd likely return to a car without mirrors and wipers.
    • dominotw 10y ago
      >you'd likely return to a car without mirrors and wipers what happens to them?
      • jacquesm 10y ago
        Some people would get extremely upset at blocking the bike lane and forcing cyclists into traffic or over the sidewalk. A passing scooter might not make it in time and is likely to clip your mirrors in the process depending on how much room they have to maneuver (likely not a lot or you wouldn't be parking in the bike lane to begin with). As for the wipers, that would likely be vandalism, but it's still cheaper to fix than the parking ticket that would follow immediately if your car would not be towed to the municipal holding facility from where you can 'buy it back' for a sum that will remind you not to park your car like that for the rest of your life (419 Euros) for being an impediment to traffic safety. Seriously, if you're in Amsterdam and you feel like parking in a bike lane is acceptable please do not do it, it will not end well.
        • dominotw 10y ago
          Weird. Govt has to be complicit in supporting vandalism if its such a common occurrence.
          • jacquesm 10y ago
• Tiktaalik 10y ago
  You don't have to get rid of street parking entirely. Another option is to put a separated bike lane between the parked cars and the sidewalk. This way cyclists are protected from traffic and parked cars (ensure a bit of room for the passenger door). Also the increased cognitive load of having to pay attention to many things occurring on the road is not necessarily a bad thing. There is evidence that having to pay attention to many things forces drivers to slow down, which is safer and results in less injuries and deaths. In contrast wide lanes allow drivers to feel comfortable which increases their speed and results in more dangerous roads for pedestrians.
  • amorphid 10y ago
    On my commute to work, the "bike lane" is shared between bicycles, cars, parked cars (between the bikers and sidewalk), and busses. Basically, they painted bike logos on the asphalt in an already jam packed lane and told everyone to share!
    • Tiktaalik 10y ago
      Sounds like a typical "Sharrow" bike lane, which is supposed to be a portmanteau of "share" and "arrow" but is often described as a "shitty arrow" because of how dangerous and ineffective these bike lanes are.
  • Zombieball 10y ago
    A lot of Vancouver's bike lanes are setup in this manner (road --> parking --> bike lane --> sidewalk). I have seen the occasional bike get doored by passengers not checking before opening their door. But I imagine this occurrence is much less than if the bike lane were on the driver's side.
• ams6110 10y ago
  Why not get rid of bike lanes where you have street parking?
  • umanwizard 10y ago
    Where the interests of cyclists and drivers conflict, we should prioritize cycling, because it has no negative externalities, requires much cheaper infrastructure, is good for health, etc.
    • hueving 10y ago
      If it causes the drivers to do something extremely inefficient (e.g. drive around the block for a half hour looking for parking), then it's a negative externality. Cyclists do not exist in a vacuum.
      • awjr 10y ago
        I think you're missing the point. In Amsterdam cars are guests on many roads. The transport infrastructure very much supports walking, cycling, and use of public transport. The car is a very very inefficient use of road space.
      • hx87 10y ago
        > drive around the block for a half hour looking for parking That would be a dumb thing to do, unless you value your time very little. Why not just park in the nearest garage?
        • hueving 10y ago
          Most people don't value their time that highly. Most middle class Americans for example would rather waste the half hour rather than spend $40 or whatever to take a cab from the suburb into the city. This disconnect is the reason a lot of silicon valley startups flounder outside of silicon valley. Most of the US population can't afford to throw away $10 to save 20 mins.
      • 10y ago
• robbrown451 10y ago
  I think that's pretty unrealistic, until we get car sharing and autonomous taxis and the like to a point where there just isn't a need for street parking.
  • umanwizard 10y ago
    We have had subways, buses, and trolleys for 100 years or more. That's car sharing at scale.
    • robbrown451 10y ago
      Then why are people still using cars? My guess: public transportation is too slow (e.g. having to stop every couple blocks) and not granular enough (have to walk to stop, have to wait). Also it is often unpleasant, being crammed in with so many.
  • Tiktaalik 10y ago
    Autonomous cars will still need to pull over to let off passengers, where they could come into conflict with bike lanes (taxis already dangerously pull into bike lanes to drop off passengers). There is still a need for explicitly separated bike lanes and parking spots for cars. I'm excited for the advent of autonomous cars, but their introduction is not really going to solve any of the current problems with our road network.
• vvpan 10y ago
  That is unrealistic and has very bad consequences on the neighborhood. I've heard urban planners (in lectures) say that when there is not a row of parked cars between a street and the sidewalk, people are much less likely to walk and spend time there. So, for example, businesses close along a street when parking is suddenly prohibited. And, as others pointed out, in most cities it is unrealistic due to how little parking there is available.
  • djsumdog 10y ago
    If America had a real public transport/rail system in all its major cities, this would be way less of an issue. It did at one point. America had an amazing tram network in many cities. Every city I lived in use to have trams. Instead of upgrading trams like St. Petersburg, Melbourne and most of Europe did, America scraped trams due to lobbying efforts of car companies to switch to shitty buses. The Netherlands have amazing train and tram networks throughout their cities. It's not uncommon to see bicycles piled up and belted to the wall in the bike section of each train.
    • awjr 10y ago
      It wasn't just lobbying but I do think it was death through a 1000 cuts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...
  • Tharkun 10y ago
    That's hilariously silly. Based on what? Their own love of cars? Research in car-centric communities?
  • hanspeter 10y ago
    It's not completely unrealistic: http://minby.dk/noerrebronordvest-bladet/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/lnn151125N%C3%B8rrebrogade.jpg http://minby.dk/noerrebronordvest-bladet/wp-content/uploads/... (Copenhagen, Denmark).
  • adrianN 10y ago
    Works perfectly in Japan, so I'd say that the urban planners are either full of shit or there were more variables than just a row of parked cars.
• carterehsmith 10y ago
  Yeah I would love to see that. At least on main-ish streets, particularly those with streetcars. So then, streetcar would be in the righmost lane, not blocking other lanes like it does now. And the streetcar passengers would not have to step on the street, which is obviously dangerous. And, I would equip streetcars with plows, to deal with people that still park in the right lane, especially in rush hour. + Permit the streetcar drivers to crash the plow into the car blocking the lane, long as the streetcar driver says, "Oops, sorry about that" That would be most satisfying to watch. The right-lane-blocking assholes would now have a natural predator, and they will either be crushed, or forced to a different habitat.
• solatic 10y ago
  Getting rid of street parking hurts people with handicapped permits. In Israel, if you are eligible for a handicapped permit then you can get a street parking space in front of your apartment building reserved for your car (with signage saying that if the car parked there doesn't specifically have license plate number X then it will be towed). Telling these people to go a few blocks to an underground parking garage, even if that garage is accessible, directly hampers their mobility and independence.
  • jacalata 10y ago
    Well in America that doesn't exist, so street parking must not affect disabled people on America. Or maybe "street parking" is too vague a term.
    • 1812calif 10y ago
      I live in California. My neighbors are disabled and got blue curb for handicap in front of their place when they moved in.
  • mrsuprawsm 10y ago
    We have the same in NL. Accessibility doesn't need to suffer at the hands of bike lanes
• Ankaios 10y ago
  Holland didn't get rid of street parking. They just became more careful about about how they placed it relative to bike lanes, sidewalks, and traffic lanes. The issue of lines-of-sight around parked cars is a big deal, and as you said, it's critical for drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists alike. Part of the solution is to make sure that the no-parking regions near intersections are appropriately sized for the speed of the street—they need to be long enough that drivers can actually see that there are no cars that will collide during the time it takes them to pull out. (I'm disturbed by how often this isn't the case in residential neighborhoods in the south bay.) Another part of the solution could be curb extensions, to physically prevent cars from parking near the intersection and allow pedestrians to see more clearly. (And ease the ability of drivers and cyclists to see pedestrians.) There are probably other tools that would help, but those seem like they would yield a big improvement.
• travmatt 10y ago
  You can also angle the parking spots. My town has parking spots that aren't parallel to the street, instead roughly 45 degrees.