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As a Dutch person, this is probably the cause of our parents always telling us to carefully open the door by looking first. And if you are not sure, open it a b

As a Dutch person, this is probably the cause of our parents always telling us to carefully open the door by looking first. And if you are not sure, open it a bit to see more. Also, in our license test, you'll have to learn the following rule: Getting out of the car, is just like turning the car, a special operation and you need to give everyone else priority so that your action will not cause problems. So take your time, be patient and be cautious.

dpark 10y ago
This is far more believable than the claim that using the far hand will force you to turn 90 degrees inside the car and scan fully before getting out. It might serve as a good habit/reminder, but it's neither necessary nor sufficient to create this behavior. I think much of the US is unaware of how seriously some other countries take driver's training. Our standards are appallingly low.
- tempestn 10y ago
  Agreed. I was definitely taught to always shoulder check before turning right, and I can't remember whether I was explicitly taught or not, but it just seems like common sense to check if anything is coming before swinging your door open. That said, clearly it's not, so that really needs to be taught better as well. (And of course the third one that they do far better than us in Holland, and in Europe in general, is lane use.) Each of these is clearly a matter of poor education. I still remember my driving test having three increasingly ridiculous questions about how it's never ok to go even 1kph over the speed limit, but no emphasis whatsoever on these issues. I hope it's changed since then, but the evidence suggests otherwise.
- Tharkun 10y ago
  Letting 16 year olds drive is probably part of the problem. In more bicycle-friendly countries, kids start drinking before they start driving. Cycling to and from parties until they're at least 18. Hell, want to go anywhere at all? Cycle. It's a pretty effective cycling motivator.
  - Scarblac 10y ago
    Also getting taught by amateurs, that just isn't a thing in the Netherlands. You learn to drive in a modified car (extra set of brakes, extra mirrors) with a qualified instructor next to you.
    - Cthulhu_ 10y ago
      The downside of that is that getting a license costs a lot more - think in the range of €1500 - €2500. But that too helps with having people take it seriously, and losing your license due to e.g. excessive speeding to hurt more.
      - Scarblac 10y ago
        And it's not as crucial to have one here, I only got my license at 35 (and now that I have kids, I'm really happy with it). That's not completely normal of course, but it'd be much harder to do in the US.
        mcv 10y ago
        Plenty of city dwellers don't get their license until they have kids. I did that too. My brother doesn't have kids but only got his license when he was about 40.
    - mcv 10y ago
      Wait, do people in the US not use professional driving instructors in modified instruction cars? Doesn't that cause a lot of accidents?
      - michael_h 10y ago
        It is not mandatory in every state, I believe. However, even when not required, it is very common to use professional driving instructors with modified cars.
        10y ago
- developer2 10y ago
  Is it that hard to believe? The human brain is not a perfect system. We operate on autopilot when performing menial tasks. Exiting a car is absolutely a zero-effort task that is habitually performed without any thought involved. Reaching with the opposite hand naturally turns your head far enough that you're looking at your blind spot - or at least 80% of the head turn required. The point is you can consciously forget to check, but by opening your door this way you will hopefully - and quite likely - trigger your brain into remembering that you need to check. Time and time again on Hacker News, intelligent people can't seem to understand that the average citizen is not a Hacker News visitor. You can try to rationalize that every driver must be capable of being consciously aware of what they are doing every single time they open their car door. You can believe that this behaviour should be testable and that we should revoke licenses from the 20-70% of drivers who would fail such a test. This is simply not the reality. Introducing a - ugh I can't think of a word related to "mnemonic", aka. a brain training exercise - that will hopefully result in more people opening their car doors safely, can only be a benefit to all.
  - dpark 10y ago
    > Reaching with the opposite hand naturally turns your head far enough that you're looking at your blind spot - or at least 80% of the head turn required. Only if you have so little shoulder mobility that you're unable to move your arm across your body while retaining your upper body position. I can reach across my body to open the door with no upper body movement. If I reach casually and let my body move loosely, I maybe move 10 or 15 degrees. You might be thinking, "Oh, you're just saying that because it's a motion you're not used to and as a result you're overthinking it and holding yourself unnaturally still." But it's not an uncommon or unnatural motion for me. I already do this literally every time I open the car door. I always open the door with my right (far) hand because I don't have a left hand. And I don't automatically turn 90 degrees when I open the door, or 80 degrees, or even 45 degrees. I'm not opposed to some "mnemonics" like this. I am opposed to treating them like they fix the core issues. It's really appealing to pick some tiny factor like this and say "here's the thing we're missing", but the thing we're missing is the careful culture that the Dutch have around driving. Opening the door with your right hand won't end dooring in the US any more than drinking red wine like the French will cure heart disease. We diminish the conversation when we push easy changes as silver bullets. > Time and time again on Hacker News, intelligent people can't seem to understand that the average citizen is not a Hacker News visitor. This is out of place and pointless. > You can try to rationalize that every driver must be capable of being consciously aware of what they are doing every single time they open their car door. You can believe that this behaviour should be testable and that we should revoke licenses from the 20-70% of drivers who would fail such a test. I definitely didn't say anything remotely like that.

dpark 10y ago

This is far more believable than the claim that using the far hand will force you to turn 90 degrees inside the car and scan fully before getting out. It might serve as a good habit/reminder, but it's neither necessary nor sufficient to create this behavior. I think much of the US is unaware of how seriously some other countries take driver's training. Our standards are appallingly low.

tempestn 10y ago
Agreed. I was definitely taught to always shoulder check before turning right, and I can't remember whether I was explicitly taught or not, but it just seems like common sense to check if anything is coming before swinging your door open. That said, clearly it's not, so that really needs to be taught better as well. (And of course the third one that they do far better than us in Holland, and in Europe in general, is lane use.) Each of these is clearly a matter of poor education. I still remember my driving test having three increasingly ridiculous questions about how it's never ok to go even 1kph over the speed limit, but no emphasis whatsoever on these issues. I hope it's changed since then, but the evidence suggests otherwise.
Tharkun 10y ago
Letting 16 year olds drive is probably part of the problem. In more bicycle-friendly countries, kids start drinking before they start driving. Cycling to and from parties until they're at least 18. Hell, want to go anywhere at all? Cycle. It's a pretty effective cycling motivator.
- Scarblac 10y ago
  Also getting taught by amateurs, that just isn't a thing in the Netherlands. You learn to drive in a modified car (extra set of brakes, extra mirrors) with a qualified instructor next to you.
  - Cthulhu_ 10y ago
    The downside of that is that getting a license costs a lot more - think in the range of €1500 - €2500. But that too helps with having people take it seriously, and losing your license due to e.g. excessive speeding to hurt more.
    - Scarblac 10y ago
      And it's not as crucial to have one here, I only got my license at 35 (and now that I have kids, I'm really happy with it). That's not completely normal of course, but it'd be much harder to do in the US.
      - mcv 10y ago
        Plenty of city dwellers don't get their license until they have kids. I did that too. My brother doesn't have kids but only got his license when he was about 40.
  - mcv 10y ago
    Wait, do people in the US not use professional driving instructors in modified instruction cars? Doesn't that cause a lot of accidents?
    - michael_h 10y ago
      It is not mandatory in every state, I believe. However, even when not required, it is very common to use professional driving instructors with modified cars.
      - 10y ago
developer2 10y ago
Is it that hard to believe? The human brain is not a perfect system. We operate on autopilot when performing menial tasks. Exiting a car is absolutely a zero-effort task that is habitually performed without any thought involved. Reaching with the opposite hand naturally turns your head far enough that you're looking at your blind spot - or at least 80% of the head turn required. The point is you can consciously forget to check, but by opening your door this way you will hopefully - and quite likely - trigger your brain into remembering that you need to check. Time and time again on Hacker News, intelligent people can't seem to understand that the average citizen is not a Hacker News visitor. You can try to rationalize that every driver must be capable of being consciously aware of what they are doing every single time they open their car door. You can believe that this behaviour should be testable and that we should revoke licenses from the 20-70% of drivers who would fail such a test. This is simply not the reality. Introducing a - ugh I can't think of a word related to "mnemonic", aka. a brain training exercise - that will hopefully result in more people opening their car doors safely, can only be a benefit to all.
- dpark 10y ago
  > Reaching with the opposite hand naturally turns your head far enough that you're looking at your blind spot - or at least 80% of the head turn required. Only if you have so little shoulder mobility that you're unable to move your arm across your body while retaining your upper body position. I can reach across my body to open the door with no upper body movement. If I reach casually and let my body move loosely, I maybe move 10 or 15 degrees. You might be thinking, "Oh, you're just saying that because it's a motion you're not used to and as a result you're overthinking it and holding yourself unnaturally still." But it's not an uncommon or unnatural motion for me. I already do this literally every time I open the car door. I always open the door with my right (far) hand because I don't have a left hand. And I don't automatically turn 90 degrees when I open the door, or 80 degrees, or even 45 degrees. I'm not opposed to some "mnemonics" like this. I am opposed to treating them like they fix the core issues. It's really appealing to pick some tiny factor like this and say "here's the thing we're missing", but the thing we're missing is the careful culture that the Dutch have around driving. Opening the door with your right hand won't end dooring in the US any more than drinking red wine like the French will cure heart disease. We diminish the conversation when we push easy changes as silver bullets. > Time and time again on Hacker News, intelligent people can't seem to understand that the average citizen is not a Hacker News visitor. This is out of place and pointless. > You can try to rationalize that every driver must be capable of being consciously aware of what they are doing every single time they open their car door. You can believe that this behaviour should be testable and that we should revoke licenses from the 20-70% of drivers who would fail such a test. I definitely didn't say anything remotely like that.