6 ms·

This is the saddest example of "natural" selection I've heard of.

by ChristianGeek 10y ago

darkxanthos 10y ago
I think it's the most exciting. I love seeing nature effectively defending itself.
- caub 10y ago
  only females lose them though
  - dvirsky 10y ago
    I wonder if it's possible to find even a rare mutation of a tusk-less male and manipulate things somehow. Or perhaps even if we do, for males tusks are really too much of a necessity for this to happen.
    - caub 10y ago
      the article explains that males need them to fight
      - dvirsky 10y ago
        yeah but what if it's this or being hunted?
- wruza 10y ago
  It is not defending, it is losing. If we use these terms against nature at all. "The planet is fine. The people are fucked." (c)
  - GuiA 10y ago
    Well, in the grand scheme of things, yes. Really, the most pragmatic argument for preserving the environment is saving ourselves. The universe doesn't care.
darkxanthos 10y ago
I think it's the most exciting. I love seeing nature effectively defending itself.
goodcanadian 10y ago
I'm too lazy to look up the reference, but a similar thing has been happening with big horn sheep. Their horns are getting smaller as (legal) hunters have preferentially killed the rams with the largest horns. EDIT: Here are a couple of links: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/bighorn-sheep-shrinking-due-to-hunters-study-suggests-1.2459623 http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/bighorn-sheep-shrinking-du... https://thegatewayonline.ca/2016/01/alberta-bighorn-sheep-horns-slowly-shrinking/ https://thegatewayonline.ca/2016/01/alberta-bighorn-sheep-ho...
projektir 10y ago
Then I would say you haven't heard much. Natural selection is a horrific process whether or not humans are involved in it. By definition it implies the death and suffering of countless creatures so that a few are selected. This is nothing. We're concerned about it because we like elephants, but as far as nature is concerned, there's nothing wrong with killing off ~75% of all species once in a blue moon. [1] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event#List_of_extinction_events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event#List_of_extin...
- pavanred 10y ago
  I think the term natural selection is sort of a misnomer, makes it easy to misinterpret it as if many are let to die while few are selected. It just happens creatures that with certain traits are more adapted to survive and reproduce (not having tusks in this case), where as some other creatures are not and die. Hence those specific traits tend to be preserved in subsequent generations while the others just didn't survive to reproduce. And, the extinction events, its not like nature is cruel and killed off most species. As you see in the list of extinctions, the reasons mostly are that the environment (or nature if you will), changed too drastically and quickly that most species couldn't adapt fast enough to survive.
  - marcoperaza 10y ago
    >its not like nature is cruel and killed off most species >the environment (or nature if you will), changed too drastically and quickly that most species couldn't adapt fast enough to survive. These are not mutually exclusive. Mass starvation caused by environmental changes is a cruel kill off. I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.
    - 1457389 10y ago
      I would say you are a little too excited about the drama and morality of a statistical process, and it's occluding your understanding of what's actually going on.
pavanred 10y ago
Why sad? Why should elephants have tusks. Elephants perhaps evolved tusks because they were useful weapons and tools in the past, but for generations of elephants now the tusks are the reason they are killed. So, they are evolving without tusks to counter the biggest threat for their survival, humans.
- truth_sentinell 10y ago
  It's sad that an species has to give up to a part of themselves because of human greed.
- mnw21cam 10y ago
  Only someone who has never seen an elephant use its tusks to rip apart a tree to get the food it needs to eat for the day could seriously ask that question. Elephants evolved tusks because they need them. An elephant without tusks is at a serious disadvantage for all purposes apart from human predation.
anonymfus 10y ago
You need to subscribe to something like https://wtfevolution.tumblr.com/ https://wtfevolution.tumblr.com/ then.

This is the saddest example of "natural" selection I've heard of.

darkxanthos 10y ago

I think it's the most exciting. I love seeing nature effectively defending itself.

caub 10y ago
only females lose them though
- dvirsky 10y ago
  I wonder if it's possible to find even a rare mutation of a tusk-less male and manipulate things somehow. Or perhaps even if we do, for males tusks are really too much of a necessity for this to happen.
  - caub 10y ago
    the article explains that males need them to fight
    - dvirsky 10y ago
      yeah but what if it's this or being hunted?
wruza 10y ago
It is not defending, it is losing. If we use these terms against nature at all. "The planet is fine. The people are fucked." (c)
- GuiA 10y ago
  Well, in the grand scheme of things, yes. Really, the most pragmatic argument for preserving the environment is saving ourselves. The universe doesn't care.

darkxanthos 10y ago

I think it's the most exciting. I love seeing nature effectively defending itself.

goodcanadian 10y ago

I'm too lazy to look up the reference, but a similar thing has been happening with big horn sheep. Their horns are getting smaller as (legal) hunters have preferentially killed the rams with the largest horns. EDIT: Here are a couple of links: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/bighorn-sheep-shrinking-due-to-hunters-study-suggests-1.2459623 http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/bighorn-sheep-shrinking-du... https://thegatewayonline.ca/2016/01/alberta-bighorn-sheep-horns-slowly-shrinking/ https://thegatewayonline.ca/2016/01/alberta-bighorn-sheep-ho...

projektir 10y ago

Then I would say you haven't heard much. Natural selection is a horrific process whether or not humans are involved in it. By definition it implies the death and suffering of countless creatures so that a few are selected. This is nothing. We're concerned about it because we like elephants, but as far as nature is concerned, there's nothing wrong with killing off ~75% of all species once in a blue moon. [1] 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event#List_of_extinction_events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event#List_of_extin...

pavanred 10y ago
I think the term natural selection is sort of a misnomer, makes it easy to misinterpret it as if many are let to die while few are selected. It just happens creatures that with certain traits are more adapted to survive and reproduce (not having tusks in this case), where as some other creatures are not and die. Hence those specific traits tend to be preserved in subsequent generations while the others just didn't survive to reproduce. And, the extinction events, its not like nature is cruel and killed off most species. As you see in the list of extinctions, the reasons mostly are that the environment (or nature if you will), changed too drastically and quickly that most species couldn't adapt fast enough to survive.
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  >its not like nature is cruel and killed off most species >the environment (or nature if you will), changed too drastically and quickly that most species couldn't adapt fast enough to survive. These are not mutually exclusive. Mass starvation caused by environmental changes is a cruel kill off. I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.
  - 1457389 10y ago
    I would say you are a little too excited about the drama and morality of a statistical process, and it's occluding your understanding of what's actually going on.

pavanred 10y ago

Why sad? Why should elephants have tusks. Elephants perhaps evolved tusks because they were useful weapons and tools in the past, but for generations of elephants now the tusks are the reason they are killed. So, they are evolving without tusks to counter the biggest threat for their survival, humans.

truth_sentinell 10y ago
It's sad that an species has to give up to a part of themselves because of human greed.
mnw21cam 10y ago
Only someone who has never seen an elephant use its tusks to rip apart a tree to get the food it needs to eat for the day could seriously ask that question. Elephants evolved tusks because they need them. An elephant without tusks is at a serious disadvantage for all purposes apart from human predation.

anonymfus 10y ago

You need to subscribe to something like https://wtfevolution.tumblr.com/ https://wtfevolution.tumblr.com/ then.