5 ms·

As a longtime MC user, I have to say this is really cool. OTOH, it doesn't have MC's amazing mod ecosystem, which is a huge part of why that game is so great.

frik 10y ago
Last time I checked, it can be modded with Lua language. Easier than Minecraft which stills lacks an official API, but the community is smaller.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Exactly. Part of what makes MC so great is that there are a lot of high-quality, well designed mods, which all work together to create a really solid experience. MT doesn't have that yet, and the community's small enough that it perhaps never will.
dcposch 10y ago
Minecraft never got an open source release or official mod support. Mods are made using libraries reverse engineered from the official game, then installed by patching the game. (This is made a bit easier than it would otherwise be because Minecraft is written in Java, but Mojang runs it thru a code obfuscator so unzipping the .jar shows a huge codebase with class and method names like "Ijf8". It's pretty gross.) MineTest is open source and has modding support as a feature.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  true, but with Forge and FML, the unofficial mod support is pretty slick. Besides, the problem isn't that modding is hard, it's the ecosystem.
- dangoor 10y ago
  The C++ Minecraft implementation (Minecraft Pocket Edition and Windows 10 edition) is getting a fully supported add-on system. They're angle for data-driven entity/item customization (simple JSON files) and C# code for implementing entirely new behaviors and components. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2MNYIa411k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2MNYIa411k https://minecraft.net/en/addons/ https://minecraft.net/en/addons/
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    That sounds dumb. Why? because they've built up an ecosystem around an API that they're about to throw by the wayside (unless they integrate it into MCJE), and I very much doubt that the new system will be as powerful (will it be able to handle mod conflicts? What about the very powerful APIs that Forge has built over the years, will you replace them? I'd like to see you try to rebuild Fluid API, FMP, OreDict, FluidDict, and the rest. And if you don't, than the best of modding probably won't be able to be rewritten for your new system). Hopefully, Searge is involved, in which case it's more likely we'll get something decent. Also hopefully, Java MC will just include Forge into MC, or at least support it officially, or something. I don't want all my favorite mods to die.
    - dangoor 10y ago
      The panel discussion I linked to was really intersting. I believe they said that Searge (who was on the panel) is the leader of the add-ons effort. They did say that Java MC isn't going anywhere. Their stated intent is to make add-ons/plugins as powerful as they can, but there is a limitation in that they want them to be able to work in environments like iOS. Add-ons sre no problem: they're just json data files. They think they'll be able use use C# plugins on iOS, but I'm quite interested to see how they pull that one off. Regardless, there are 30-40 million players of MCPE who have no modding at all today. This new system is going to be a big step up. even if it is entirely different from the way Java MC is extended.
      - fail2fail2ban 10y ago
        > They did say that Java MC isn't going anywhere. Embrace, extend, extinguish is how it always plays out.
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        We shall see... I personally don't think that Mojang would do that unless forced to, especially given what would happen to the community. Most likely established modders would continue to use JMC as their base, pushing new modders towards doing so, and thus it would continue to overshadow other versions, as the mods really do make the game.
Sylos 10y ago
It doesn't have as big of a modding ecosystem as Minecraft, simply because it doesn't have even a fraction of the community, but apart from size, I don't think I would agree on its modding ecosystem being less amazing. Minetest has for one a stable modding API, meaning that mods generally don't break left and right with each release. If you find a mod, chances are that it's going to work, even if it hasn't been maintained for a while. The whole game content itself is also built using this modding API, meaning that there's nothing stopping you from making mod-content, which has just as high quality as the built-in content. Or you can write your own game completely from scratch. Or you can create mods which have then again other mods as dependencies. Minetest also has what's probably best described as "Modpack as a Service". When you connect to a server, your client downloads the mods that the server has installed and applies them. This means that you can play on a modded server without making any changes to your client. You can just connect to random servers to take a look at the different mods that exist, without any hassle whatsoever. This also works in singleplayer, i.e. you can play with different sets of mods on different maps, again without hassle. You just use the built-in mod manager to enable the mods that you want on a per-map basis.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Those are all advantages, but MC's unofficial mod support is very good, and has much of that. The real problem isn't MT's hypothetical mod support, it's that people aren't building the kind of mods that you get in MC: There's no BC, IC2, AE, TC5, TE4, CC, Ars Magica, Blood Magic, TConstruct, Forestry, FMP, RC, EE3, and so on. Those mods are a big part of why MC is what it so great, and MT can't get away with just copying them: It can copy, sure, but it should also have its own mods, and they should be good ones, because otherwise there's no reason to play it over MC. It doesn't matter how good your mod support is. It matters how good your modding scene is. And MC has one of the best since HL.
- ryukafalz 10y ago
  >When you connect to a server, your client downloads the mods that the server has installed and applies them. From a security perspective, this is concerning.
fail2fail2ban 10y ago
I think it was great before mods and quite popular. Notch left and it's not as popular now.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Dude, it's literally one of the most popular games on earth.
  - fail2fail2ban 10y ago
    Their newest snapshots looks like they're getting back on track, I wasn't into 1.9. Wishing them the best though.
coredog64 10y ago
MC's mod ecosystem is also an Achilles heel. The primary audience is tweens/teens and the typical mod author is someone who cranks out something in their spare time and doesn't think about install hygiene. This leads to mods being hosted on the shadiest of shady sites. Downloads can be infected with malware and the users don't really know why they shouldn't just run "InstallMyInfectedMod.exe". Then there's the mods that break between versions. You can have mod A, B, and C on 1.8.1, but only A and B on 1.8.2 and only B and C on 1.8.3.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Mods to break between versions, which is annoying. However, the sites are usually MCForum or Curse, neither of which are especially shady, and I've never seen a mod packaged as an exe by its creator. You're probably looking at the cites that host a collection of mods from other sources, which are about as shady as their software equivalents: sites like cnet, etc.
- DanBC 10y ago
  ...or the launchers that ask you to give them your Minecraft account name and password.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    You don't have to use any of them, you do know that, right? Those are just a convenience thing.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      Sure. It's an example of terrible practice though.
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        The launchers can't do anything about it though. The need your credentials to download minecraft.jar

frik 10y ago

Last time I checked, it can be modded with Lua language. Easier than Minecraft which stills lacks an official API, but the community is smaller.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Exactly. Part of what makes MC so great is that there are a lot of high-quality, well designed mods, which all work together to create a really solid experience. MT doesn't have that yet, and the community's small enough that it perhaps never will.

dcposch 10y ago

Minecraft never got an open source release or official mod support. Mods are made using libraries reverse engineered from the official game, then installed by patching the game. (This is made a bit easier than it would otherwise be because Minecraft is written in Java, but Mojang runs it thru a code obfuscator so unzipping the .jar shows a huge codebase with class and method names like "Ijf8". It's pretty gross.) MineTest is open source and has modding support as a feature.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
true, but with Forge and FML, the unofficial mod support is pretty slick. Besides, the problem isn't that modding is hard, it's the ecosystem.
dangoor 10y ago
The C++ Minecraft implementation (Minecraft Pocket Edition and Windows 10 edition) is getting a fully supported add-on system. They're angle for data-driven entity/item customization (simple JSON files) and C# code for implementing entirely new behaviors and components. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2MNYIa411k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2MNYIa411k https://minecraft.net/en/addons/ https://minecraft.net/en/addons/
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  That sounds dumb. Why? because they've built up an ecosystem around an API that they're about to throw by the wayside (unless they integrate it into MCJE), and I very much doubt that the new system will be as powerful (will it be able to handle mod conflicts? What about the very powerful APIs that Forge has built over the years, will you replace them? I'd like to see you try to rebuild Fluid API, FMP, OreDict, FluidDict, and the rest. And if you don't, than the best of modding probably won't be able to be rewritten for your new system). Hopefully, Searge is involved, in which case it's more likely we'll get something decent. Also hopefully, Java MC will just include Forge into MC, or at least support it officially, or something. I don't want all my favorite mods to die.
  - dangoor 10y ago
    The panel discussion I linked to was really intersting. I believe they said that Searge (who was on the panel) is the leader of the add-ons effort. They did say that Java MC isn't going anywhere. Their stated intent is to make add-ons/plugins as powerful as they can, but there is a limitation in that they want them to be able to work in environments like iOS. Add-ons sre no problem: they're just json data files. They think they'll be able use use C# plugins on iOS, but I'm quite interested to see how they pull that one off. Regardless, there are 30-40 million players of MCPE who have no modding at all today. This new system is going to be a big step up. even if it is entirely different from the way Java MC is extended.
    - fail2fail2ban 10y ago
      > They did say that Java MC isn't going anywhere. Embrace, extend, extinguish is how it always plays out.
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        We shall see... I personally don't think that Mojang would do that unless forced to, especially given what would happen to the community. Most likely established modders would continue to use JMC as their base, pushing new modders towards doing so, and thus it would continue to overshadow other versions, as the mods really do make the game.

Sylos 10y ago

It doesn't have as big of a modding ecosystem as Minecraft, simply because it doesn't have even a fraction of the community, but apart from size, I don't think I would agree on its modding ecosystem being less amazing. Minetest has for one a stable modding API, meaning that mods generally don't break left and right with each release. If you find a mod, chances are that it's going to work, even if it hasn't been maintained for a while. The whole game content itself is also built using this modding API, meaning that there's nothing stopping you from making mod-content, which has just as high quality as the built-in content. Or you can write your own game completely from scratch. Or you can create mods which have then again other mods as dependencies. Minetest also has what's probably best described as "Modpack as a Service". When you connect to a server, your client downloads the mods that the server has installed and applies them. This means that you can play on a modded server without making any changes to your client. You can just connect to random servers to take a look at the different mods that exist, without any hassle whatsoever. This also works in singleplayer, i.e. you can play with different sets of mods on different maps, again without hassle. You just use the built-in mod manager to enable the mods that you want on a per-map basis.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Those are all advantages, but MC's unofficial mod support is very good, and has much of that. The real problem isn't MT's hypothetical mod support, it's that people aren't building the kind of mods that you get in MC: There's no BC, IC2, AE, TC5, TE4, CC, Ars Magica, Blood Magic, TConstruct, Forestry, FMP, RC, EE3, and so on. Those mods are a big part of why MC is what it so great, and MT can't get away with just copying them: It can copy, sure, but it should also have its own mods, and they should be good ones, because otherwise there's no reason to play it over MC. It doesn't matter how good your mod support is. It matters how good your modding scene is. And MC has one of the best since HL.
ryukafalz 10y ago
>When you connect to a server, your client downloads the mods that the server has installed and applies them. From a security perspective, this is concerning.

fail2fail2ban 10y ago

I think it was great before mods and quite popular. Notch left and it's not as popular now.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Dude, it's literally one of the most popular games on earth.
- fail2fail2ban 10y ago
  Their newest snapshots looks like they're getting back on track, I wasn't into 1.9. Wishing them the best though.

coredog64 10y ago

MC's mod ecosystem is also an Achilles heel. The primary audience is tweens/teens and the typical mod author is someone who cranks out something in their spare time and doesn't think about install hygiene. This leads to mods being hosted on the shadiest of shady sites. Downloads can be infected with malware and the users don't really know why they shouldn't just run "InstallMyInfectedMod.exe". Then there's the mods that break between versions. You can have mod A, B, and C on 1.8.1, but only A and B on 1.8.2 and only B and C on 1.8.3.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
Mods to break between versions, which is annoying. However, the sites are usually MCForum or Curse, neither of which are especially shady, and I've never seen a mod packaged as an exe by its creator. You're probably looking at the cites that host a collection of mods from other sources, which are about as shady as their software equivalents: sites like cnet, etc.
DanBC 10y ago
...or the launchers that ask you to give them your Minecraft account name and password.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  You don't have to use any of them, you do know that, right? Those are just a convenience thing.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    Sure. It's an example of terrible practice though.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      The launchers can't do anything about it though. The need your credentials to download minecraft.jar