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>Do you really equate sleeping with HR to getting noticed by delivering donuts to executives? No, there is a huge difference. But why does the line lay at don

>Do you really equate sleeping with HR to getting noticed by delivering donuts to executives? No, there is a huge difference. But why does the line lay at donuts? Who decides which rules matter? How about cash instead of donuts? How about fake references? Is that brilliant or wrong? There are quite a few successful people who are far more than just naughty, I believe one is successful enough to be running for president. The slightly naughty have far less room to criticize outrageous behavior if their line is ever shifting and coincidentally always just beyond their own acts. Any human system requires good intent and fair play to function. Any such system can be gamed by a small number of players. Those players will usually come out ahead with little harm to that system. If the number gets large then then any system will begin to break down. So is the goal to keep the number of rule breakers small and make sure we are always in that group? And if the hiring process is broken, fix it. Encouraging ludicrous ad hoc random non-sense is the exact opposite of fixing anything. What is being suggested is that there are some unwritten ever changing rules know only to the initiated that are the real rules. The official published rules are for "the other" and frankly only exist exactly to keep out the uninitiated.

davemel37 10y ago
All i'll say is that in this case, where he was applying for a marketing position, he wasnt breaking rules, he was proving his qualifications for the job. The broader discussion is outside my realm of expertise.
al_chemist 10y ago
> How about cash instead of donuts? How about fake references? Paid advertising. Guerilla marketing. Fake reviews and scores. Cardboards bigger than contents. Yep, that's exactly what marketing section does. Why would you think that would disqualify a person to work there?
- whybroke 10y ago
  The line you drew is utterly arbitrary and could just as easily include sleeping with staff and justify that as great salesmanship. What about hacking a company server to put his resume on the top of the queue? Offering the data in exchange for a "position"? Blackmailing with it? Because he just got into dozens of company offices using nothing but a tee shirt. He could easily have carried a flash drive alongside the resume in those donuts. Each person who cheats draws the line just beyond their own behavior. To prevent chaos the hard line lies were the authorities enforce it. And such blunt instruments damage the systems they protect almost as negatively as the violators they catch. But the argument about cheating has been going on since the Olduvai Gorge and this conversation is going to have exactly the same effect as every other one. The only difference at this time is that cheating has been bizarrely fetishized into being a good thing. And the biggest picture is merely chasing the latest web fad so zealously that a community has been transformed into one so obsessed with wealth that its member happily step over homeless on the way to lunch everyday. And so much as commenting on this situation is consider politically extreme even transgressive.

davemel37 10y ago

All i'll say is that in this case, where he was applying for a marketing position, he wasnt breaking rules, he was proving his qualifications for the job. The broader discussion is outside my realm of expertise.

al_chemist 10y ago

> How about cash instead of donuts? How about fake references? Paid advertising. Guerilla marketing. Fake reviews and scores. Cardboards bigger than contents. Yep, that's exactly what marketing section does. Why would you think that would disqualify a person to work there?

whybroke 10y ago
The line you drew is utterly arbitrary and could just as easily include sleeping with staff and justify that as great salesmanship. What about hacking a company server to put his resume on the top of the queue? Offering the data in exchange for a "position"? Blackmailing with it? Because he just got into dozens of company offices using nothing but a tee shirt. He could easily have carried a flash drive alongside the resume in those donuts. Each person who cheats draws the line just beyond their own behavior. To prevent chaos the hard line lies were the authorities enforce it. And such blunt instruments damage the systems they protect almost as negatively as the violators they catch. But the argument about cheating has been going on since the Olduvai Gorge and this conversation is going to have exactly the same effect as every other one. The only difference at this time is that cheating has been bizarrely fetishized into being a good thing. And the biggest picture is merely chasing the latest web fad so zealously that a community has been transformed into one so obsessed with wealth that its member happily step over homeless on the way to lunch everyday. And so much as commenting on this situation is consider politically extreme even transgressive.