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I used to suffer from CFS, and my wife used to get almost weekly migraines. (We're now both symptom free). In both our cases, chronic stress seemed to be the ca

I used to suffer from CFS, and my wife used to get almost weekly migraines. (We're now both symptom free). In both our cases, chronic stress seemed to be the cause. From what I can see (having talked to many other patients and researched it for the last 16 years), the depression/migraine/CFS/fibromyalgia cluster of symptoms appears to be the brain's way of telling you to stop doing what you're doing, i.e. you should remove the stressors. That's not to say that all migraines are caused by stress, but it does seem that it is likely a significant factor for many people. I dislike the notion perpetuated in this article that if your headaches or fatigue is psychosomatic (due to stress) then you're either "weak", or it's "all in your head" (i.e. imaginary). I'll admit I probably wouldn't be able to work in a stressful job in NY with only a few hours sleep a night -- like the author of this article was trying to do -- without suffering from some kind of stress-related illness. I don't think that makes me weak...it's simply that my brain won't let me work in an excessively stressful situation like that if it doesn't appear to be in my best interests (even if I really want to do it). The advantage is that my CFS prompted me to quit a boring job and create my own internet startup, doing something that nobody else in the world is doing (now I have about 20+ competitors).

WhitneyLand 10y ago
Agreed. She also didn't mention how she ruled out psychosomatic causes in her own case. It's proven that stress can cause a lot of physical problems and those problems, which were brought on by mere thoughts, can injure or kill you in ways that are indistinguishable from conventional disease.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  My doctor (and later the 'experts' in the hospital too) kept insisting it could not be stress so they kept giving me crap to remedy migraine, blood pressure etc. It stopped completely and never returned when I removed the stress.
  - cpncrunch 10y ago
    I think the problem is that many doctors don't really understand (or don't want to believe) how stress affects the mind and body. Perhaps they don't like it because it's not really possible for a doctor to "fix" it in a 15 minute consultation. They prefer to just give you a pill. If you look at the research, it's pretty clear that none of the common migraine triggers has any actual evidence, apart from stress.
Noseshine 10y ago
Given that we now think that the brain flushes out waste products during sleep [0][1] and that lack of sleep is associated with all kinds of real problems [2][3] (both ideas supporting one another) "psychosomatic" really is something quite physical. As an IT guy who has taken hundreds of hours of medical and several neuroscience courses I can't quite wrap my head around the idea of claiming something is "mental" or "psychological" and mean it as a closing statement. And "stress" is physical. If it was just and "idea" or abstract concept you would not feel anything. It only becomes "stress" when physical things happen inside of you. [0] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/brain-may-flush-out-toxins-during-sleep https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/brain-may-flus... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12153644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12153644 [2] http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/01/04/460620606/lack-of-deep-sleep-may-set-the-stage-for-alzheimers http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/01/04/46062060... [3] http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/consequences/sleep-and-disease-risk http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/conseque...
- kolinko 10y ago
  Not to mention peptic ulcers, which doctors said were stress related until someone [1] discovered a bacteria responsible for it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall
  - cpncrunch 10y ago
    That's not quite true. 50% of the world's population are infected with H. Pylori, so clearly it isn't the only cause. It is still thought that stress is a major factor in causing peptic ulcer [1]. We know for sure that stress causes increased stomach acid secretion, changes to immunity in the gut, as well as changes to the musocal lining. Any one of these factors could increase the risk of getting a stomach ulcer. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2665639/pdf/9501720.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2665639/pdf/950...
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  Firstly, psychosomatic means physical symptoms due to psychological cause, so if there was no physical thing happening inside the body, it wouldn't be psychosomatic. (It would just be psychological). There are many types of stress, e.g. physical (exercise), viral, or psychological, and they all have a similar effect in the brain (i.e. all of those stresses activate the HPA axis). From what I can see, the type of shutdown due to chronic stress that we see in CFS and similar conditions is likely due to the central governor[1] or Boksem's cost-benefit analysis centre[2] (which may actually be the same brain areas) deliberately generating fatigue due to excessive negative stress. So the mechanism isn't "lack of sleep causing damage, resulting in fatigue", it is more along the lines of "central governor sees that we aren't getting enough sleep, and then deliberately generates fatigue to tell us we need to sleep more". So even though it's not a psychological primary cause, it's probably fair to say that the fatigue is psychosomatic because the brain is doing a psychological determination based on a physical input. (The same would apply for excessive exercise resulting in overtraining). If you prefer, you could call it "functional" rather than psychosomatic. I prefer not to get caught up on terminology, and instead concentrate on what's actually happening in the body. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3323922/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3323922/ [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51426280_Mental_fatigue_Costs_and_benefits https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51426280_Mental_fat...
Lxr 10y ago
Can I ask how your CFS is after starting the startup?
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  Zero symptoms for 15 years, so it's pretty obviously completely cured. I should say, however, that my startup is just me, and I don't have any funding, so there is pretty much zero stress. Even so, I'm able to put in a normal day's work and I can handle normal amounts of physical activity (e.g. cycling 30km) with no after-effects, both of which would obviously have been impossible when I had CFS.

WhitneyLand 10y ago

Agreed. She also didn't mention how she ruled out psychosomatic causes in her own case. It's proven that stress can cause a lot of physical problems and those problems, which were brought on by mere thoughts, can injure or kill you in ways that are indistinguishable from conventional disease.

tluyben2 10y ago
My doctor (and later the 'experts' in the hospital too) kept insisting it could not be stress so they kept giving me crap to remedy migraine, blood pressure etc. It stopped completely and never returned when I removed the stress.
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  I think the problem is that many doctors don't really understand (or don't want to believe) how stress affects the mind and body. Perhaps they don't like it because it's not really possible for a doctor to "fix" it in a 15 minute consultation. They prefer to just give you a pill. If you look at the research, it's pretty clear that none of the common migraine triggers has any actual evidence, apart from stress.

Noseshine 10y ago

Given that we now think that the brain flushes out waste products during sleep [0][1] and that lack of sleep is associated with all kinds of real problems [2][3] (both ideas supporting one another) "psychosomatic" really is something quite physical. As an IT guy who has taken hundreds of hours of medical and several neuroscience courses I can't quite wrap my head around the idea of claiming something is "mental" or "psychological" and mean it as a closing statement. And "stress" is physical. If it was just and "idea" or abstract concept you would not feel anything. It only becomes "stress" when physical things happen inside of you. [0] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/brain-may-flush-out-toxins-during-sleep https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/brain-may-flus... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12153644 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12153644 [2] http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/01/04/460620606/lack-of-deep-sleep-may-set-the-stage-for-alzheimers http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/01/04/46062060... [3] http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/consequences/sleep-and-disease-risk http://healthysleep.med.harvard.edu/healthy/matters/conseque...

kolinko 10y ago
Not to mention peptic ulcers, which doctors said were stress related until someone [1] discovered a bacteria responsible for it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  That's not quite true. 50% of the world's population are infected with H. Pylori, so clearly it isn't the only cause. It is still thought that stress is a major factor in causing peptic ulcer [1]. We know for sure that stress causes increased stomach acid secretion, changes to immunity in the gut, as well as changes to the musocal lining. Any one of these factors could increase the risk of getting a stomach ulcer. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2665639/pdf/9501720.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2665639/pdf/950...
cpncrunch 10y ago
Firstly, psychosomatic means physical symptoms due to psychological cause, so if there was no physical thing happening inside the body, it wouldn't be psychosomatic. (It would just be psychological). There are many types of stress, e.g. physical (exercise), viral, or psychological, and they all have a similar effect in the brain (i.e. all of those stresses activate the HPA axis). From what I can see, the type of shutdown due to chronic stress that we see in CFS and similar conditions is likely due to the central governor[1] or Boksem's cost-benefit analysis centre[2] (which may actually be the same brain areas) deliberately generating fatigue due to excessive negative stress. So the mechanism isn't "lack of sleep causing damage, resulting in fatigue", it is more along the lines of "central governor sees that we aren't getting enough sleep, and then deliberately generates fatigue to tell us we need to sleep more". So even though it's not a psychological primary cause, it's probably fair to say that the fatigue is psychosomatic because the brain is doing a psychological determination based on a physical input. (The same would apply for excessive exercise resulting in overtraining). If you prefer, you could call it "functional" rather than psychosomatic. I prefer not to get caught up on terminology, and instead concentrate on what's actually happening in the body. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3323922/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3323922/ [2] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51426280_Mental_fatigue_Costs_and_benefits https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51426280_Mental_fat...

Lxr 10y ago

Can I ask how your CFS is after starting the startup?

cpncrunch 10y ago
Zero symptoms for 15 years, so it's pretty obviously completely cured. I should say, however, that my startup is just me, and I don't have any funding, so there is pretty much zero stress. Even so, I'm able to put in a normal day's work and I can handle normal amounts of physical activity (e.g. cycling 30km) with no after-effects, both of which would obviously have been impossible when I had CFS.