4 ms·

Hum, so any recent news on the libreboot project ?

by onde2rock 10y ago

BafS 10y ago
Maybe it is more about that: https://libreboot.org/gnu/ https://libreboot.org/gnu/
- DashRattlesnake 10y ago
  I was actually thinking of giving LibreBoot a try until all this drama broke. Now it just seems like the personal soapbox of a particular individual, which doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in its viability (especially given how ambitious it is).
  - orionblastar 10y ago
    I got a feeling we'll see more of this happening. Was the transgender employee fired because she was transgender, or was she fired for some other reason? It is really hard to tell unless there is a court case on it. If you remember Ellen Pao claimed she was fired because of her gender, and it went to court, and the only proof that they had for anything was that Pao was bullying others and being a bad employee with performance issues. Transgender people need to be treated with respect and dignity, but if they don't perform well they will get fired like anyone else. I don't like the drama either, but it happens from time to time.
    - colejohnson66 10y ago
      People who've worked at the FSF say it is very progressive and open to transgenders. The idea that they would fire someone for being trans is just outrageous.
      - orionblastar 10y ago
        It makes no sense. FSF treats employees better than most companies and are very open minded as well. It is very progressive and open to GLBT people, etc. I think it is some sort of politics, like trying to attack Linus because he rejected some SJW's contributions to the Linux Kernel because it caused a Kernel panic and asked if she bothered to test the code before submitting it. Then he is accused of being sexist towards her because he used cuss words.
        userbinator 10y ago
        Didn't Linus say something along the lines of "I don't care about your gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or whatever else, except the code you submit"? That seems to be his attitude toward such things.
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        That seems unlikely. For one thing, Linus and all that would have been mentioned.
      - icebraining 10y ago
        The claim isn't exactly that: "A transgender employee at the FSF was being harassed by a transphobic colleague for being trans. The trans person, not the bully, was then fired when they stood up for themselves, because it was seen as trouble making while the bully remained silent."
        colejohnson66 10y ago
        Your source for that is from Leah Rowe who has proven in this situation to be untrustworthy. Read the discussion on `gnu-prog-discuss`[0]. The employee being trans was not the issue. [0]: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg0003...
        icebraining 10y ago
        Yes, my source for the claim is the author of the claim. And I cited it to point out that Leah Rowe doesn't claim that just being trans was the issue, but that it was the fact that the employee spoke up against the bullying.
    - MertsA 10y ago
      Well, we don't really know all of the facts but it apparently wasn't a problem when she was hired, wasn't a problem when they highlighted her for Lady Ada Lovelace day, and it wasn't a problem that kept FSF from giving her a senior job title. FSF obviously isn't going to comment on the matter but Leah Rowe at one point claimed on the libreboot website that the employee that was let go had said that it was fine for Leah to raise cain over it but that was reverted not long after it was put up. Leah also claimed to be taking the high ground to avoid naming names and then promptly turned around and claimed that three individuals at FSF were misogynistic and that they should be fired immediately. Make from that what you will.
      - mjevans 10y ago
        I don't have enough data to make anything but FUD from it. There are many reasons that someone could change their mind and decide to take different actions than they have before. Either way it is clear that some form of 'bad blood' has arisen and that things are now divisive. Unfortunately I don't know who I can side with on this issue due to the lack of data.
        MertsA 10y ago
        In my mind, I really don't even see any reason to believe that there is significant bad blood between the actual employee that was fired and FSF. The only side of this story that we have is Leah's and she's already outed the ex-employee, slandered 3 people in every way she can, and either the fired employee changed her mind about supporting Leah's actions, or Leah made that up as well. At the very least, I think we can conclude that the FSF and the fired employee are unhappy with Leah's actions.
  - pmarreck 10y ago
    I love how "free software" rails against the anti-freedom of "open source software" and then fails to carry that libertarian spirit through letting people decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies and not judging them for it. On the other hand, the problem with claiming "I'm being biased against!" is of course twofold: One, any noncisgendered-white-male employee can claim it even if the main problem was a lack of productivity. Two, when I feel unwelcome, my optimal response is to just leave instead of suing those I feel unwelcome from (with the added assumption that it is very hard to change people's preferences for other people, and that there's a certain amount of "dealing with the way things are right now instead of forcing them to be otherwise" acceptance available.) Nobody likes drama queens, not employers and not employees. Just go, I say, and find a welcoming environment. You're not married to a software project.
    - anc84 10y ago
      No one cares about the private lives of people behind nicknames unless they drag their issues into the project, which is what happened here.
  - 56245623456 10y ago
    Try coreboot, it supports more boards and is the actual upstream project. Libreboot is just a set of patches that removes support for boards that require Intel Management Engine and rips out microcode updates.
- yuhong 10y ago
  I think this is also a good time to think about whether the ideology is actually a good idea too.
  - HisGraceTheDuck 10y ago
    Sometimes people have to do what they believe is right.
  - geofft 10y ago
    Yeah, it's long past time to reconsider whether GNU's ideology is actually working - if you have an organization that's dedicated to "freedom" that's firing people because they receive too much harassment, something has gone wrong. I've been of the opinion for many years that GNU is delivering something more like "freedom for people who are in our situation." There's the counterintuitive effect where moving things from hardware to firmware, i.e., enabling (at least in theory) the end user to change how their computing works, makes a system less "free" in the GNU definition, because the standard for measurement is how computers used to be. There's the fact that GNU has never prioritized the web platform (possibly because Stallman doesn't use a web browser, and instead emails URLs to a server that replies with a lynx -dump of the page, reading the response when he checks email the next day), and so, one, there's very little support for a freedom-respecting web browser, and two, there is basically no attempt at solving the JavaScript trap, on the grounds that not running JS is better. There's the complete lack of an ethos on cloud computing other than "Don't," despite the fact that GNU comes out of the university environment where all your computing was controlled by someone else, namely the university sysadmins. So, ultimately, there's a long history of the GNU folks not anticipating ways in which people have their computing freedoms infringed and basically going "Well you're doing something wrong, stop doing that." It's sadly quite unsurprising that the same ideology means that when an employee is harassed in a way that the executives haven't personally experienced, they assume that the employee must be doing something wrong.
    - j_koreth 10y ago
      >Yeah, it's long past time to reconsider whether GNU's ideology is actually working - if you have an organization that's dedicated to "freedom" that's firing people because they receive too much harassment, something has gone wrong. There is no proof has been disclosed indicating the person fired was for receiving too much harrassment and with the responses of the rest of libreboot devs I don't think such a thing happened at all. >There's the fact that GNU has never prioritized the web platform (possibly because Stallman doesn't use a web browser, and instead emails URLs to a server that replies with a lynx -dump of the page, reading the response when he checks email the next day), and so, one, there's very little support for a freedom-respecting web browser, Besides https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ ? > and two, there is basically no attempt at solving the JavaScript trap, on the grounds that not running JS is better. There's the complete lack of an ethos on cloud computing other than "Don't," despite the fact that GNU comes out of the university environment where all your computing was controlled by someone else, namely the university sysadmins. Are you sure https://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/ https://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/ doesn't solve your needs?

Hum, so any recent news on the libreboot project ?

BafS 10y ago

Maybe it is more about that: https://libreboot.org/gnu/ https://libreboot.org/gnu/

DashRattlesnake 10y ago
I was actually thinking of giving LibreBoot a try until all this drama broke. Now it just seems like the personal soapbox of a particular individual, which doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in its viability (especially given how ambitious it is).
- orionblastar 10y ago
  I got a feeling we'll see more of this happening. Was the transgender employee fired because she was transgender, or was she fired for some other reason? It is really hard to tell unless there is a court case on it. If you remember Ellen Pao claimed she was fired because of her gender, and it went to court, and the only proof that they had for anything was that Pao was bullying others and being a bad employee with performance issues. Transgender people need to be treated with respect and dignity, but if they don't perform well they will get fired like anyone else. I don't like the drama either, but it happens from time to time.
  - colejohnson66 10y ago
    People who've worked at the FSF say it is very progressive and open to transgenders. The idea that they would fire someone for being trans is just outrageous.
    - orionblastar 10y ago
      It makes no sense. FSF treats employees better than most companies and are very open minded as well. It is very progressive and open to GLBT people, etc. I think it is some sort of politics, like trying to attack Linus because he rejected some SJW's contributions to the Linux Kernel because it caused a Kernel panic and asked if she bothered to test the code before submitting it. Then he is accused of being sexist towards her because he used cuss words.
      - userbinator 10y ago
        Didn't Linus say something along the lines of "I don't care about your gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or whatever else, except the code you submit"? That seems to be his attitude toward such things.
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        That seems unlikely. For one thing, Linus and all that would have been mentioned.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      The claim isn't exactly that: "A transgender employee at the FSF was being harassed by a transphobic colleague for being trans. The trans person, not the bully, was then fired when they stood up for themselves, because it was seen as trouble making while the bully remained silent."
      - colejohnson66 10y ago
        Your source for that is from Leah Rowe who has proven in this situation to be untrustworthy. Read the discussion on `gnu-prog-discuss`[0]. The employee being trans was not the issue. [0]: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg0003...
        icebraining 10y ago
        Yes, my source for the claim is the author of the claim. And I cited it to point out that Leah Rowe doesn't claim that just being trans was the issue, but that it was the fact that the employee spoke up against the bullying.
  - MertsA 10y ago
    Well, we don't really know all of the facts but it apparently wasn't a problem when she was hired, wasn't a problem when they highlighted her for Lady Ada Lovelace day, and it wasn't a problem that kept FSF from giving her a senior job title. FSF obviously isn't going to comment on the matter but Leah Rowe at one point claimed on the libreboot website that the employee that was let go had said that it was fine for Leah to raise cain over it but that was reverted not long after it was put up. Leah also claimed to be taking the high ground to avoid naming names and then promptly turned around and claimed that three individuals at FSF were misogynistic and that they should be fired immediately. Make from that what you will.
    - mjevans 10y ago
      I don't have enough data to make anything but FUD from it. There are many reasons that someone could change their mind and decide to take different actions than they have before. Either way it is clear that some form of 'bad blood' has arisen and that things are now divisive. Unfortunately I don't know who I can side with on this issue due to the lack of data.
      - MertsA 10y ago
        In my mind, I really don't even see any reason to believe that there is significant bad blood between the actual employee that was fired and FSF. The only side of this story that we have is Leah's and she's already outed the ex-employee, slandered 3 people in every way she can, and either the fired employee changed her mind about supporting Leah's actions, or Leah made that up as well. At the very least, I think we can conclude that the FSF and the fired employee are unhappy with Leah's actions.
- pmarreck 10y ago
  I love how "free software" rails against the anti-freedom of "open source software" and then fails to carry that libertarian spirit through letting people decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies and not judging them for it. On the other hand, the problem with claiming "I'm being biased against!" is of course twofold: One, any noncisgendered-white-male employee can claim it even if the main problem was a lack of productivity. Two, when I feel unwelcome, my optimal response is to just leave instead of suing those I feel unwelcome from (with the added assumption that it is very hard to change people's preferences for other people, and that there's a certain amount of "dealing with the way things are right now instead of forcing them to be otherwise" acceptance available.) Nobody likes drama queens, not employers and not employees. Just go, I say, and find a welcoming environment. You're not married to a software project.
  - anc84 10y ago
    No one cares about the private lives of people behind nicknames unless they drag their issues into the project, which is what happened here.
- 56245623456 10y ago
  Try coreboot, it supports more boards and is the actual upstream project. Libreboot is just a set of patches that removes support for boards that require Intel Management Engine and rips out microcode updates.
yuhong 10y ago
I think this is also a good time to think about whether the ideology is actually a good idea too.
- HisGraceTheDuck 10y ago
  Sometimes people have to do what they believe is right.
- geofft 10y ago
  Yeah, it's long past time to reconsider whether GNU's ideology is actually working - if you have an organization that's dedicated to "freedom" that's firing people because they receive too much harassment, something has gone wrong. I've been of the opinion for many years that GNU is delivering something more like "freedom for people who are in our situation." There's the counterintuitive effect where moving things from hardware to firmware, i.e., enabling (at least in theory) the end user to change how their computing works, makes a system less "free" in the GNU definition, because the standard for measurement is how computers used to be. There's the fact that GNU has never prioritized the web platform (possibly because Stallman doesn't use a web browser, and instead emails URLs to a server that replies with a lynx -dump of the page, reading the response when he checks email the next day), and so, one, there's very little support for a freedom-respecting web browser, and two, there is basically no attempt at solving the JavaScript trap, on the grounds that not running JS is better. There's the complete lack of an ethos on cloud computing other than "Don't," despite the fact that GNU comes out of the university environment where all your computing was controlled by someone else, namely the university sysadmins. So, ultimately, there's a long history of the GNU folks not anticipating ways in which people have their computing freedoms infringed and basically going "Well you're doing something wrong, stop doing that." It's sadly quite unsurprising that the same ideology means that when an employee is harassed in a way that the executives haven't personally experienced, they assume that the employee must be doing something wrong.
  - j_koreth 10y ago
    >Yeah, it's long past time to reconsider whether GNU's ideology is actually working - if you have an organization that's dedicated to "freedom" that's firing people because they receive too much harassment, something has gone wrong. There is no proof has been disclosed indicating the person fired was for receiving too much harrassment and with the responses of the rest of libreboot devs I don't think such a thing happened at all. >There's the fact that GNU has never prioritized the web platform (possibly because Stallman doesn't use a web browser, and instead emails URLs to a server that replies with a lynx -dump of the page, reading the response when he checks email the next day), and so, one, there's very little support for a freedom-respecting web browser, Besides https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ ? > and two, there is basically no attempt at solving the JavaScript trap, on the grounds that not running JS is better. There's the complete lack of an ethos on cloud computing other than "Don't," despite the fact that GNU comes out of the university environment where all your computing was controlled by someone else, namely the university sysadmins. Are you sure https://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/ https://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/ doesn't solve your needs?