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Libreboot – A free BIOS or UEFI replacement
- onde2rock 10y agoHum, so any recent news on the libreboot project ?
- BafS 10y agoMaybe it is more about that: https://libreboot.org/gnu/ https://libreboot.org/gnu/
- DashRattlesnake 10y agoI was actually thinking of giving LibreBoot a try until all this drama broke. Now it just seems like the personal soapbox of a particular individual, which doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in its viability (especially given how ambitious it is).
- orionblastar 10y agoI got a feeling we'll see more of this happening. Was the transgender employee fired because she was transgender, or was she fired for some other reason? It is really hard to tell unless there is a court case on it. If you remember Ellen Pao claimed she was fired because of her gender, and it went to court, and the only proof that they had for anything was that Pao was bullying others and being a bad employee with performance issues. Transgender people need to be treated with respect and dignity, but if they don't perform well they will get fired like anyone else. I don't like the drama either, but it happens from time to time.
- colejohnson66 10y agoPeople who've worked at the FSF say it is very progressive and open to transgenders. The idea that they would fire someone for being trans is just outrageous.
- orionblastar 10y agoIt makes no sense. FSF treats employees better than most companies and are very open minded as well. It is very progressive and open to GLBT people, etc. I think it is some sort of politics, like trying to attack Linus because he rejected some SJW's contributions to the Linux Kernel because it caused a Kernel panic and asked if she bothered to test the code before submitting it. Then he is accused of being sexist towards her because he used cuss words.
- userbinator 10y agoDidn't Linus say something along the lines of "I don't care about your gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or whatever else, except the code you submit"? That seems to be his attitude toward such things.
- qwertyuiop924 10y agoThat seems unlikely. For one thing, Linus and all that would have been mentioned.
- icebraining 10y agoThe claim isn't exactly that: "A transgender employee at the FSF was being harassed by a transphobic colleague for being trans. The trans person, not the bully, was then fired when they stood up for themselves, because it was seen as trouble making while the bully remained silent."
- colejohnson66 10y agoYour source for that is from Leah Rowe who has proven in this situation to be untrustworthy. Read the discussion on `gnu-prog-discuss`[0]. The employee being trans was not the issue. [0]: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg0003...
- icebraining 10y ago
- MertsA 10y agoWell, we don't really know all of the facts but it apparently wasn't a problem when she was hired, wasn't a problem when they highlighted her for Lady Ada Lovelace day, and it wasn't a problem that kept FSF from giving her a senior job title. FSF obviously isn't going to comment on the matter but Leah Rowe at one point claimed on the libreboot website that the employee that was let go had said that it was fine for Leah to raise cain over it but that was reverted not long after it was put up. Leah also claimed to be taking the high ground to avoid naming names and then promptly turned around and claimed that three individuals at FSF were misogynistic and that they should be fired immediately. Make from that what you will.
- mjevans 10y agoI don't have enough data to make anything but FUD from it. There are many reasons that someone could change their mind and decide to take different actions than they have before. Either way it is clear that some form of 'bad blood' has arisen and that things are now divisive. Unfortunately I don't know who I can side with on this issue due to the lack of data.
- MertsA 10y agoIn my mind, I really don't even see any reason to believe that there is significant bad blood between the actual employee that was fired and FSF. The only side of this story that we have is Leah's and she's already outed the ex-employee, slandered 3 people in every way she can, and either the fired employee changed her mind about supporting Leah's actions, or Leah made that up as well. At the very least, I think we can conclude that the FSF and the fired employee are unhappy with Leah's actions.
- pmarreck 10y agoI love how "free software" rails against the anti-freedom of "open source software" and then fails to carry that libertarian spirit through letting people decide for themselves what to do with their own bodies and not judging them for it. On the other hand, the problem with claiming "I'm being biased against!" is of course twofold: One, any noncisgendered-white-male employee can claim it even if the main problem was a lack of productivity. Two, when I feel unwelcome, my optimal response is to just leave instead of suing those I feel unwelcome from (with the added assumption that it is very hard to change people's preferences for other people, and that there's a certain amount of "dealing with the way things are right now instead of forcing them to be otherwise" acceptance available.) Nobody likes drama queens, not employers and not employees. Just go, I say, and find a welcoming environment. You're not married to a software project.
- anc84 10y agoNo one cares about the private lives of people behind nicknames unless they drag their issues into the project, which is what happened here.
- 56245623456 10y agoTry coreboot, it supports more boards and is the actual upstream project. Libreboot is just a set of patches that removes support for boards that require Intel Management Engine and rips out microcode updates.
- yuhong 10y agoI think this is also a good time to think about whether the ideology is actually a good idea too.
- HisGraceTheDuck 10y agoSometimes people have to do what they believe is right.
- geofft 10y agoYeah, it's long past time to reconsider whether GNU's ideology is actually working - if you have an organization that's dedicated to "freedom" that's firing people because they receive too much harassment, something has gone wrong. I've been of the opinion for many years that GNU is delivering something more like "freedom for people who are in our situation." There's the counterintuitive effect where moving things from hardware to firmware, i.e., enabling (at least in theory) the end user to change how their computing works, makes a system less "free" in the GNU definition, because the standard for measurement is how computers used to be. There's the fact that GNU has never prioritized the web platform (possibly because Stallman doesn't use a web browser, and instead emails URLs to a server that replies with a lynx -dump of the page, reading the response when he checks email the next day), and so, one, there's very little support for a freedom-respecting web browser, and two, there is basically no attempt at solving the JavaScript trap, on the grounds that not running JS is better. There's the complete lack of an ethos on cloud computing other than "Don't," despite the fact that GNU comes out of the university environment where all your computing was controlled by someone else, namely the university sysadmins. So, ultimately, there's a long history of the GNU folks not anticipating ways in which people have their computing freedoms infringed and basically going "Well you're doing something wrong, stop doing that." It's sadly quite unsurprising that the same ideology means that when an employee is harassed in a way that the executives haven't personally experienced, they assume that the employee must be doing something wrong.
- j_koreth 10y ago>Yeah, it's long past time to reconsider whether GNU's ideology is actually working - if you have an organization that's dedicated to "freedom" that's firing people because they receive too much harassment, something has gone wrong. There is no proof has been disclosed indicating the person fired was for receiving too much harrassment and with the responses of the rest of libreboot devs I don't think such a thing happened at all. >There's the fact that GNU has never prioritized the web platform (possibly because Stallman doesn't use a web browser, and instead emails URLs to a server that replies with a lynx -dump of the page, reading the response when he checks email the next day), and so, one, there's very little support for a freedom-respecting web browser, Besides https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ https://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/ ? > and two, there is basically no attempt at solving the JavaScript trap, on the grounds that not running JS is better. There's the complete lack of an ethos on cloud computing other than "Don't," despite the fact that GNU comes out of the university environment where all your computing was controlled by someone else, namely the university sysadmins. Are you sure https://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/ https://www.gnu.org/software/librejs/ doesn't solve your needs?
- geofft 10y agoIf I want to hack on Libreboot on a separate machine from my primary one, what's a good laptop to get? Are there laptops that are close to working but not on the HCL yet?
- HisGraceTheDuck 10y agoHere's the list of compatible laptops: https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/index.html#supported_laptops_x86intel https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/index.html#supported_laptops_... Nothing recent but on the plus side, you should be able to pick one up without spending too much.
- lighttower 10y agoChanging the BIOS on, say a late model Thinkpad would be difficult. Doesn't the update utility verify the signatures before flashing?
- JonathonW 10y agoMost of their supported machines (including at least a few of the Thinkpads they support) look like they can't be flashed "online" from the OEM firmware. For that hardware, their documentation says you'd have to disassemble the machine and flash the firmware externally. Obviously, this requires specialized hardware, but it's not completely insurmountable if you're really determined to run the thing.
- userbinator 10y agoThe laptop repair shops I've seen in Shenzhen offer a BIOS reflashing service that involves using a long cable with a small clip on the end that connects to the BIOS chip. They usually reflash to OEM, to fix "hard bricks", but might be willing to flash an image you provide.
- 56245623456 10y agoAll you need is a Raspberry Pi and a 15 dollar POMONA 5250 SOIC clip.
- snvzz 10y agoIsn't libreboot just coreboot minus blobs? I don't get why it is in any way remarkable.
- parent5446 10y agoAre you not familiar with the free software movement? There's a reason the project is called libreboot.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jimjimjim 10y agofor a long time i thought the name of the project was libReboot. libreBoot does make more sense though.
- SolarNet 10y agoI wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the choice in the name.
- vog 10y agoThe submission title should be corrected from BiOS to BIOS.
- aq3cn 10y agoI was reading about buying a laptop with libreboot bootloader but then I saw a whole section to screw paywall. https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/ https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/ https://minifree.org/paypal/ https://minifree.org/paypal/ Their laptops are cheap and with good configuration except for CPU and graphics card. I will have hard time running Matlab on such a machine, so I cannot make that investment. Better CPU please especially when your laptop is 2.2 kg in weight.
- ultim8k 10y ago2kg for a laptop? I can remember when computers were that heavy.
- davorb 10y ago> It is extremely unlikely that any post-2008 Intel hardware will ever be supported in libreboot, due to severe security and freedom issues; so severe, that the libreboot project recommends avoiding all modern Intel hardware. If you have an Intel based system affected by the problems described below, then you should get rid of it as soon as possible. https://libreboot.org/faq/#intel https://libreboot.org/faq/#intel
- aq3cn 10y agoYou are right. I did not read the whole part. There is more to it though. > Intel is only going to get worse when it comes to user freedom. Libreboot has no support recent Intel platforms, precisely because of the problems described above. The only way to solve this is to get Intel to change their policies and to be more friendly to the free software community. Reverse engineering won't solve anything long-term, unfortunately, but we need to keep doing it anyway. Moving forward, Intel hardware is a non-option unless a radical change happens within Intel. > Basically, all Intel hardware from year 2010 and beyond will never be supported by libreboot. The libreboot project is actively ignoring all modern Intel hardware at this point, and focusing on alternative platforms.
- cryptarch 10y agoI would not recommend their services at all, although I own one of their products. Leah is extremely unresponsive, when I ordered mine it took over 2 months for it to be shipped with no prior indication of this (it should've taken at most 3 weeks to arrive at my home), and any email response from Minifree took at least 3 weeks. Oh, and Leah billed me UK taxes instead of Dutch taxes as per the EU webshop rules, so that was a lot of fun when I had to file my taxes. The shittiest customer experience I've had in years.
- akerro 10y agoAfter the latest drama I think libreboot is driven be oversensitive and irresponsible developer. Prove me wrong?
- yenda 10y agoI don't quite understand why it is making the front page again we should stop giving publicity to this drama queen, SJW or whatever she should be called. If there was discrimination this should be taken to court instead of trying to get mob justice by wrongfully using a platform that is not meant for that and doxxing people without proof.
- radmuzom 10y agoDown-voted. When we criticised Eich, there was so much noise that the only thing which matters is his technical merits. So how is the developer and his or her attitudes relevant now? Why the double standards?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- SRSposter 10y agoDid Eich ever use Mozilla for political ambitions?
- yuvadam 10y agoPretty disgusting comment right there. Funny how we never hear about drama 'kings' and how we should stop giving them publicity, eh?
- yenda 10y agoI didn't know I was making a disgusting comment by using a common English expression that applies to both men and women.
- dschuetz 10y agoWhile I agree that most BIOS and/or UEFI installations are just... unacceptable, I don't think that a replacement will do just fine. The initialisation process should be as streamlined as possible, but allow as much control as possible. I would not call a multi-staged boot process "streamlined", when you argue that coreboot is the fastest way to boot up a computer. And then again, the whole process is repeated by the operating system one way or another. Anyways, I'm glad that coreboot exists regarding the UEFI fuckups in the recent past, but I don't think it's the way to go further. Oh, and, the free in libreBoot is just cosmetics, so I shrug, whatever.
- pgeorgi 10y agoThere are stages because there are multiple situations in which code has to run in: without RAM, with RAM, ... I'm curious, what do you propose instead?
- dschuetz 10y agoOh, nothing, everything is just perfectly fine.
- oneplane 10y agoThose stages are not much different from the 'secret' firmware you're running now.
- dschuetz 10y agoThat's exactly the point. If their existence doesn't change anything, why do they exist? Extra control, transparency? But no extra functionality for/with the hardware? So, why the alternative?
- finchisko 10y agoI would probably be excited about lib(reboot), when the number of supported mainboard would be higher than 5. Now I'm just not.