4 ms·
This is anecdotal in some ways but I think some of my observations can be generalized and observed consistently as I've moved to various places. I have (not a
by usmeteora 10y ago
This is anecdotal in some ways but I think some of my observations can be generalized and observed consistently as I've moved to various places.
I have (not a graduate degree but a Bachelors) a degree in Engineering from a top Private University but neither of my parents or their parents even graduated from highschool, much less went to college. I loved to read and learn from a young age, made straight As and thought Engineering would be cool because I liked math and Science but I knew being a Scientist meant long turn around times for learning cycles and now I do software dev because, learning cycles are fast! and I enjoy it, alot.
My parents lived in a trailor park, both druggies, I eventually got an academic scholarship to a private school while my Brother failed out of highschool. My dad has been in and out of prison and my mom would be at home drunk meanwhile I'm going to school day to day with kids who drive beamers to highschool and parents land helicopter to their kids crew meets.
It has been a bizarre experience to be able to be friends with people from my hometown in trailor parks who go to church and walmart and have babies at 17 (basically all of my cousins) and also know and become intimate and working peers with "the super elite".
I want to make a disclaimer that Yes, I acknowledge that some people start off in worse situations and that should be accounted for. This is not an opinion about who deserves what and what is fair and what is not. It's about observing issues people have when they are poor.
When it comes to trying to calibrate and be fair to historically economically disadvantaged ethnicities and demographics, the Government sucks at that.
My dad is full blood Native American (I'm half, and for those of you wondering already. nope. I did not put it on my college application, I left it off and wanted my perfect SAT Score and 3.986 unweighted GPA to be enough to get me into my dream school, and it was).
Welfare and closed off land for Native communities feels (and yes I say feel because I've LIVED in these places) more like a closed off culture for self perpetuating destruction from what I've experienced and also continued to witness from my extended family and their lives.
Issues of proper ways to calibrate disadvantaged people aside. Debates about whether people can get out of those situations and whether some deserve to be there aside.
For all people who are really poor in America, whether fair or right or how they got there, I've noticed that poor people across the board tend to have the following issues:
1. Their economic neediness attaches them to other economically needy people to pool resources like ride sharing, furniture, food, childcare. Therefore, their social networks are closely linked to other needy people. If one person becomes less needy, the balance is offset, people notice and immediately try to maximize the other persons resources because they can benefit greatly from it, obliterating the gains the increased wealth could be used to invest in more long term purchases to set that person up for a more stable life.
It can be done, but usually requires being a black sheep and experiencing an extreme amount of social isolation.
We already know strong social networks correlate with less depression so this creates an incredibly hard to document relationship when it comes to someone breaking out of their network of other economically needy people.
2. They don't realize this is happening. People who are the most self destructive tend to not realize when they are engaging in self destructive habits and with self destructive people. If this is how you grew up, it's hard to understand you deserve to be treated better, and that there are more productive ways to sooth yourself through stressful situations.
3. It is not rocket science for me. I know firsthand there is alot of unintentional emotional manipulation from people who feel threatened by someone else doing better. If you are born to an economically needy and codependent family in an economically needy and codependent community who exists by pooling resources because they are caught in a cycle of being desperate to meet basic life needs and self soothing with instant gratification that is self destructive, it is hard to take increased wealth, keep it to yourself or use it for the good of the community to invest in long term benefits for yourself and the people around you.
4. Investing in education is hard when you are poor, and trying to overcome the learning curve that other more privileged kids around me took for granted like connections to elite companies and institutions, having a dad who was an Engineer help you with your math homework, having a family who stays healthy and has healthy habits, took even more time.
When you are poor, being broke, dealing with stressful relationships and maintaining social connections to people who need you economically takes up time, time that you have even less of when you are making up for the learning curve just to calibrate to the elite.
Most people cannot overcome this even if they try because the emotional and cultural imprisonment, intentioned or not, can be soul crushing, and the guilt tripping associated with "thinking your better than everyone else" forces people in these intermediate situations to "choose sides" and some people don't make the best long term decision for themselves here.
For me, I moved far away for college, and have consistently relocated myself and each time associated with smarter people more aligned with my goals. If I still lived in my hometown and had people whose lives are going poorly around asking me for favours and wanting me to come to family events all of the time, I would not be as successful.
You want to believe that everyone will work as hard as you to make their lives better but the truth is alot of people are scared, don't believe in themselves and American poverty is comfortable enough that its easier to surround yourself with other people in that situation than experience the soul crushing isolation of trying to make yourself better without the full support of your community while also entering into a new community and trying to overcome the inferiority complex.
I'm a female Engineer Age 26 and now I make 6 figures, almost done paying off student loans, which were steep going to a private university, don't tell my family how much I make, live far away from them and am doing freelance software on the side outside of work, working 70hours a week to make passive income and invest more in software and bring those skills back to my niche industry so I can increase my salary even more.
Alot of people tell me "all you care about is money". No, you obviously have never lived on food stamps, lived with a single working mother whose father is in prison, and been sent to live with aunts and uncles when your mother couldnt afford to have you. Being broke is stressful and all consuming and forces you to be dependent on other people who are stuck on making short term economic decisions because they can't save up enough (for whatever reason, legitimate or lack of planning or putting in enough effort, stress, too busy working long hours at min wage etc) to invest in a better life.
Screw you. It's not about the money, its about creating a stable life so I can invest and focus on what I love to do. If I love what i do and I invest in that, I'll get a job doing something I really like, and I will be good at it and want to spend my time doing that, and I'll have the opportunity to work on big problems that help alot of people, and I won't be distracted by my lack of ability to take care of myself or pay my bills.
I've had fake hipsters who are Art Majors "living at home" buying a $5 latte not realizing what an economic luxury it is to sit a coffee shop and "contemplate" life, tell me all I care about is money has never really been poor, and thinks backpacking and asking people for money here and there is a cool socioeconomic experiment (that can be cushioned by crashing at your parents house when it doesnt work out), has idea what they are talking about.
- shostack 10y agoThank you for your story. How much weight would you put in the saying that you are the average of your five closest friends? Do you have any close friends who didn't make it out?
- usmeteora 10y ago1. Yeh I would put alot of weight into that. It is honestly some of my closest friends now who said they saw potential in me when I was at my weakest who helped me and put me in touch with other good people. My exboyfriend and his friends were all Engineers but graduated and wanted to live a comfortable life. I was supposed to marry him and cater to him until I found out he was cheating on me. I left him but the hard part was we had a tight knit group of 20 mutual friends. They were my life but I had to leave them because they all wanted to treat eachother like shit and get comfortable. It was REALLY hard for 6 months I felt like I had no friends but if I did not have those times I Would have never met the new people in my life, one of which also ended up leaving that group. She is my age and the CEO of a multimillion dollar company. From her I have met so many amazing people and when I share my story they are like "oh yeh I know those kind of people i DO NOT spend time with them." Then it makes me feel less crazy. When you are an outlier, its more likely people say you are "crazy" what is crazy? Crazy is an extreme outlier. The key is to not be an outlier, by surrounding yourself with people like you.. My ex actually made me believe there was something wrong with me but thats because I was not hanging around other really motivated people who wanted to spend more time doing cool things and less time on drinking and drama. In that circle I was crazy. Even though I act exactly the same, in my new circle, people think I'm awesome and they all really want me to do well. I look back at my friends from two years ago and I cringe wondering why I ever put up with it. Slightly embarassed I did. When I fly home to visit my family and see their lives, it depresses me. Definitely want to surround yourself with people who challenge you, not make your feel like "you work too hard. youre crazy. everyone treats eachother this way were ok with it you should be ok with it too." Thats a self esteem killer. Oh sorry did not answer second question. 2. Yes I have friends from my hometown who are heroine addicts, and no I cannot be too close to them because they end up asking for money and it causes alot of tension in the relationship. And yes most of my female friends, even the highly educated ones, actually are settling for men who they have lots of problems with but they are comfortable with eachother because they have been together for so long. THey have given up good jobs to move to their boyfriends new jobs even though their boyfriends would not do the same for them. It's hard to see smart motivated girls slowly settle over time and our lives go in different directions, but already years later I look back and look at their lives and know I made the right decision for myself. If you are an attractive smart female in tech, alot of guys want to date you. I think that makes it really easy for a female in that position to actually marry another successful person and get comfortable spending more time on the relationship than on their career. There will always be men vying for that spot. It was a tad weird because I Expected women in tech, like the females I met at Engineering school to be very feminist and independent, but because they are a scarce and highly coveted resource, men rise to the challenge to accomodate them and alot of women get comfortable with that. Would I say they didn't make it? I dont know about that. They will live financially successful lives still and live at the upper income. Will they reach their full potential that way? No, but I could ask myself that question everyday and always push myself harder.