4 ms·

Russia Hack of U.S. Politics Bigger Than Disclosed, Includes GOP

17 points by molecule 10y ago

matmo 10y ago
Almost seems like an attempt to shift the dialogue from "Republican vs. Democrat" to "USA vs. Russia". Why put out this article now, instead of when this first became public "knowledge"? I get the feeling this is the democratic establishment trying to say "Look, the GOP is getting hacked too! Lets all turn our focus on Russia!" This is admittedly speculation, though. You can't really trust the government or the media these days, so I don't even know which bits of information I'm working with are true or false.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  In the absence of evidence, invention and speculation don't really help. Moreover, the reality of conspiracies coming to light and burning the conspirators should always be considered when concocting theories.
  - villedespommes 10y ago
    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. This is exactly how science works. One observes, posits a theory and lastly proves it. Theories are a speculation by default
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      Hypotheses are speculation, and worthless if you're not able to test them.
      - matmo 10y ago
        >In the absence of evidence, invention and speculation don't really help In the same vein, until I see actual evidence (and not just "Mr. SoAndSo said so-and-so is true), I'll factor in the claims of the US government and media as just hypotheses. I think its unfair to say that we should refrain from discussing or theorizing about topics when the truth is murky just because we can't test it. I'd test it if I could, but the reality is that we're never going to have that ability (unless we magically achieve complete governmental transparency somehow).
        M_Grey 10y ago
        Now that is fair, and I'm not suggesting that people not speculate, but there needs to be an element of the reality that we just don't know.
        villedespommes 10y ago
        if this news is even partially true. I'd say the US gov is pretty adept at manufacturing any "proof" at will http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/us-government-pentagon-fake-al-qaeda-propganda-videos-a7348371.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/us-government-pentag...
villedespommes 10y ago
IMO, real enemies are within... running for President. They dragged the US into numerous and very expensive conflicts all around the globe and make huge profits off the backs of ordinary people. To my biggest dismay, my income tax rate is even bigger in the US than it was in Canada and yet I'm not receiving even a fraction of services.
- rukittenme 10y ago
  Out of curiosity, what were the tax rates like in Canada and the US? And at what income level (if you feel comfortable sharing)?
  - villedespommes 10y ago
    i don't think i'm comfortable enough to share the exact numbers. let me just say that i'm probably a mid-to-upper middle-class guy and i was comparing tax rates in Ontario vs Oregon.
  - trhway 10y ago
    For 2016: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html 15% on the first $45,282 of taxable income, + 20.5% on the next $45,281 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $45,282 up to $90,563), + 26% on the next $49,825 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $90,563 up to $140,388), + 29% on the next $59,612 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $140,388 up to $200,000), + 33% of taxable income over $200,000. US, https://www.irs.com/articles/projected-us-tax-rates-2016 https://www.irs.com/articles/projected-us-tax-rates-2016 , best case - joint declaration: $0—$18,550 10% $18,551—$75,300 $1,855 plus 15% of the amount over $18,550 $75,301—$151,900 $10,367.50 plus 25% of the amount over $75,300 $151,901—$231,450 $29,517.50 plus 28% of the amount over $151,900 $231,451—$413,350 $51,791.50 plus 33% of the amount over $231,450 $413,351—$466,950 $111,818.50 plus 35% of the amount over $413,350 $466,951 or more $130,578.50 plus 39.6% of the amount over $466,950
    - villedespommes 10y ago
gragas 10y ago
Why does everyone just take the word of the current administration to be true? The director of national intelligence, James Clapper, said that he (and the US' intelligence agencies by proxy) is uncertain who is responsible for the attacks. I have not seen a single shred of evidence that links Russia to the attacks, other than words that come out of politicians mouths. This all seems like a political narrative to me.
cairo_x 10y ago
Doesn't a source have to provide specific evidence to be even considered a source?

17 points by molecule 10y ago

matmo 10y ago

Almost seems like an attempt to shift the dialogue from "Republican vs. Democrat" to "USA vs. Russia". Why put out this article now, instead of when this first became public "knowledge"? I get the feeling this is the democratic establishment trying to say "Look, the GOP is getting hacked too! Lets all turn our focus on Russia!" This is admittedly speculation, though. You can't really trust the government or the media these days, so I don't even know which bits of information I'm working with are true or false.

M_Grey 10y ago
In the absence of evidence, invention and speculation don't really help. Moreover, the reality of conspiracies coming to light and burning the conspirators should always be considered when concocting theories.
- villedespommes 10y ago
  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. This is exactly how science works. One observes, posits a theory and lastly proves it. Theories are a speculation by default
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    Hypotheses are speculation, and worthless if you're not able to test them.
    - matmo 10y ago
      >In the absence of evidence, invention and speculation don't really help In the same vein, until I see actual evidence (and not just "Mr. SoAndSo said so-and-so is true), I'll factor in the claims of the US government and media as just hypotheses. I think its unfair to say that we should refrain from discussing or theorizing about topics when the truth is murky just because we can't test it. I'd test it if I could, but the reality is that we're never going to have that ability (unless we magically achieve complete governmental transparency somehow).
      - M_Grey 10y ago
        Now that is fair, and I'm not suggesting that people not speculate, but there needs to be an element of the reality that we just don't know.
      - villedespommes 10y ago
        if this news is even partially true. I'd say the US gov is pretty adept at manufacturing any "proof" at will http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/us-government-pentagon-fake-al-qaeda-propganda-videos-a7348371.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/us-government-pentag...

villedespommes 10y ago

IMO, real enemies are within... running for President. They dragged the US into numerous and very expensive conflicts all around the globe and make huge profits off the backs of ordinary people. To my biggest dismay, my income tax rate is even bigger in the US than it was in Canada and yet I'm not receiving even a fraction of services.

rukittenme 10y ago
Out of curiosity, what were the tax rates like in Canada and the US? And at what income level (if you feel comfortable sharing)?
- villedespommes 10y ago
  i don't think i'm comfortable enough to share the exact numbers. let me just say that i'm probably a mid-to-upper middle-class guy and i was comparing tax rates in Ontario vs Oregon.
- trhway 10y ago
  For 2016: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html 15% on the first $45,282 of taxable income, + 20.5% on the next $45,281 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $45,282 up to $90,563), + 26% on the next $49,825 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $90,563 up to $140,388), + 29% on the next $59,612 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income over $140,388 up to $200,000), + 33% of taxable income over $200,000. US, https://www.irs.com/articles/projected-us-tax-rates-2016 https://www.irs.com/articles/projected-us-tax-rates-2016 , best case - joint declaration: $0—$18,550 10% $18,551—$75,300 $1,855 plus 15% of the amount over $18,550 $75,301—$151,900 $10,367.50 plus 25% of the amount over $75,300 $151,901—$231,450 $29,517.50 plus 28% of the amount over $151,900 $231,451—$413,350 $51,791.50 plus 33% of the amount over $231,450 $413,351—$466,950 $111,818.50 plus 35% of the amount over $413,350 $466,951 or more $130,578.50 plus 39.6% of the amount over $466,950
  - villedespommes 10y ago

gragas 10y ago

Why does everyone just take the word of the current administration to be true? The director of national intelligence, James Clapper, said that he (and the US' intelligence agencies by proxy) is uncertain who is responsible for the attacks. I have not seen a single shred of evidence that links Russia to the attacks, other than words that come out of politicians mouths. This all seems like a political narrative to me.

cairo_x 10y ago

Doesn't a source have to provide specific evidence to be even considered a source?