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I agree that vilifying UDP doesn't really help anyone, but that's kindof besides the point. Victim blaming is wrong because you divorce someone's intentional d
by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago
I agree that vilifying UDP doesn't really help anyone, but that's kindof besides the point.
Victim blaming is wrong because you divorce someone's intentional decision to cause harm from their responsibility for the resulting harm. To take the classical example: It's not inherently wrong to tell people that they should avoid situations that empirically have an increased risk of being raped. It's only wrong if you then claim that the perpetrator is not responsible for what they did because the victim didn't heed that advice.
Now, whether ISPs are victims isn't really that clear. First of all, the DDoS packets consume bandwidth, which can cause increased expenses without corresponding increased income. Secondly, at least the very moment you expect them to implement BCP 38, they absolutely are. Implementing BCP 38 is additional work that's only required in order to handle the bad behavior of other people that the ISP is not responsible for, aka harm due to someone else's malicious actions.
But also, the comment that you responded to above was about DNS cache poisoning, not about DDoS. By randomizing DNS transaction IDs, you absolutely can make DNS cache poisoning harder, and I think the responsible thing to do is to protect against that attack vector. ISPs should be doing more to prevent spoofing, but that doesn't mean that it's responsible to leave your users open to spoofing-based attacks that you should be able to relatively easily prevent.
- Confusion 10y agoImplementing BCP 38 is additional work that's only required [..] That's like saying that the fact that I need to lock my door makes me a 'victim' of the existence of thieves, because otherwise I wouldn't need locks. That's not how the word 'victim' is used, either in general or in this particular context. Insisting on some extremely literal interpretation on the word 'victim' is entirely unhelpful here.
- hueving 10y agoIt's victim blaming in the sense that an ISP which should have taken the correct steps to number their endpoints (BCP 38) is not being harassed by companies like cloudflare for DDoSes while DNS server operators are. "Yeah, this guy stole your car by asking nicely for an extra set of keys from the manufacturer. Even though the manufacturer shouldn't have allowed him to do get a key, we're holding you responsible since you technically could have kept your car in a locked garage." Also, the gp was taking about cache poisoning, but it was only exploitable in the presence of spoofed IPs.