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The US itself has become slightly less shy recently about it's efforts to manipulate elections. With high likelihood, direct criticism back and forth between th

The US itself has become slightly less shy recently about it's efforts to manipulate elections. With high likelihood, direct criticism back and forth between these two superpowers is likely to inform those in smaller countries that their votes are subject - as they have been for a long time - both domestic and foreign manipulation, some of it very clever and very deniable. In this case it should be introduced as a concept in civics courses that as an individual your vote is not 'your own' and an expression of your personal thoughts, but that your vote is a commodity that other people are trying, covertly, to convince you to spend certain ways. Civics courses would do well to train citizens not to believe their own states, not to believe major news outlets, and to otherwise vote when they feel they've come to be able to identify the discrete manipulative narratives coming from various political information warfare centers.

zekevermillion 10y ago
Even if attribution of these attacks to Russia is correct, I think it is fair to say that such poorly concealed covert efforts would be Keystone Kops compared to the color revolutions. And no doubt were the US to promote a color revolution somewhere in the world today, cracking local systems would be part of that effort.
micaksica 10y ago
An aside: I've come to the conclusion that 1) we end up in the same threads, and 2) we almost consistently agree on these issues. > Civics courses would do well to train citizens not to believe their own states, not to believe major news outlets, and to otherwise vote when they feel they've come to be able to identify the discrete manipulative narratives coming from various political information warfare centers. Never will this happen in public educational institutions. There is too much risk, and Civics courses generally glorify American history and then explain that the current electoral system works just the same as it did with the founding fathers, and that it has scaled miraculously with the country's population, demographics and wealth. A "realistic" Civics class would likely serve to alienate young voters, lead to yet more political apathy, or, in the case of the really angsty, lead to situations of civil unrest.
- com2kid 10y ago
  > Never will this happen in public educational institutions. To disagree, this was my experience at HS and college. A lot of my US history classes involved covering the history of corruption in the US. As an example, we took a look at the funding sources for the revolutionary war. That was a very direct and immediate way to deflate belief in everyone being involved solely for the sake of liberty. Add on top of that a Philosophy class that had us apply formal logic to the statements of politicians. One of the most amusing classes I've ever had, I got to diagram out political speeches and see that they, quite literally, equaled out to null!
  - micaksica 10y ago
    > To disagree, this was my experience at HS and college. A lot of my US history classes involved covering the history of corruption in the US. As an example, we took a look at the funding sources for the revolutionary war. That was a very direct and immediate way to deflate belief in everyone being involved solely for the sake of liberty. If you don't mind me asking: when and where did you graduate from high school and did you learn this in a Civics course or an American History course? I'm curious if it's a generational thing, or a geographical thing (ie coastal vs midwest, rural vs urban).
    - com2kid 10y ago
      Seattle WA. Experiences described are from College, my HS courses also encouraged lots of free thinking, but my most memorable HS courses are from European history. The often chanted refrain in class was "OLD DEAD WHITE MEN", in response to "and who did this?" That and "The holy roman empire wasn't holy, wasn't roman, and wasn't much of an empire." Then again, part of the class was taught in relationship to Monty Python and the Holy Grail, so the teacher was a bit eccentric. ;)

zekevermillion 10y ago

Even if attribution of these attacks to Russia is correct, I think it is fair to say that such poorly concealed covert efforts would be Keystone Kops compared to the color revolutions. And no doubt were the US to promote a color revolution somewhere in the world today, cracking local systems would be part of that effort.

micaksica 10y ago

An aside: I've come to the conclusion that 1) we end up in the same threads, and 2) we almost consistently agree on these issues. > Civics courses would do well to train citizens not to believe their own states, not to believe major news outlets, and to otherwise vote when they feel they've come to be able to identify the discrete manipulative narratives coming from various political information warfare centers. Never will this happen in public educational institutions. There is too much risk, and Civics courses generally glorify American history and then explain that the current electoral system works just the same as it did with the founding fathers, and that it has scaled miraculously with the country's population, demographics and wealth. A "realistic" Civics class would likely serve to alienate young voters, lead to yet more political apathy, or, in the case of the really angsty, lead to situations of civil unrest.

com2kid 10y ago
> Never will this happen in public educational institutions. To disagree, this was my experience at HS and college. A lot of my US history classes involved covering the history of corruption in the US. As an example, we took a look at the funding sources for the revolutionary war. That was a very direct and immediate way to deflate belief in everyone being involved solely for the sake of liberty. Add on top of that a Philosophy class that had us apply formal logic to the statements of politicians. One of the most amusing classes I've ever had, I got to diagram out political speeches and see that they, quite literally, equaled out to null!
- micaksica 10y ago
  > To disagree, this was my experience at HS and college. A lot of my US history classes involved covering the history of corruption in the US. As an example, we took a look at the funding sources for the revolutionary war. That was a very direct and immediate way to deflate belief in everyone being involved solely for the sake of liberty. If you don't mind me asking: when and where did you graduate from high school and did you learn this in a Civics course or an American History course? I'm curious if it's a generational thing, or a geographical thing (ie coastal vs midwest, rural vs urban).
  - com2kid 10y ago
    Seattle WA. Experiences described are from College, my HS courses also encouraged lots of free thinking, but my most memorable HS courses are from European history. The often chanted refrain in class was "OLD DEAD WHITE MEN", in response to "and who did this?" That and "The holy roman empire wasn't holy, wasn't roman, and wasn't much of an empire." Then again, part of the class was taught in relationship to Monty Python and the Holy Grail, so the teacher was a bit eccentric. ;)