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I was hoping this was about how airports /should/ work. The current system can't possibly be ideal. Airports seem to be built with no concept of door to door t

I was hoping this was about how airports /should/ work. The current system can't possibly be ideal. Airports seem to be built with no concept of door to door travel time. For sample, SF to LA by plane. Use muni to get to BART, wait for BART, take it to the little airport train thing, then a line at checkin, security, and all the long walks in between. Overnight self-driving sleeper Uber will be a vastly superior experience. It's a sign of how we're moving backwards despite all the technology.

fit2rule 10y ago
European airports can be extraordinarily well connected. (Most of the German ones, for example, are connected directly to local rail lines, which are another thing entirely.)
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  London as well: Heathrow is directly connected to the tube (subway) and Gatwick is directly connected to local rail. With only hand luggage and a scannable passport, it takes about 50 min. from getting of the plane at Gatwick until you're in the middle of the city.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    Should you ever be delayed at Gatwick, with pleasant weather, there's a public footpath that leads away from the airport along the river. It's amazing how quickly the airport disappears from view. I spent some of a 4 hour delay walking this path. The blue dotted line, go north then along the river: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.1581/-0.1632 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.1581/-0.1632
- GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
  Newark is terrible, but at least it's connected directly to NJTransit rail.
tajen 10y ago
> no concept of door to door travel time Yup, we should have a luggage drop wagon on board of the BART, and the BART should drop us at our gate. Obviously that implies the BART is also a giant TSA irradiation oven (Want to opt out? Well, there's the taxi).
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duaneb 10y ago
> Overnight self-driving sleeper Uber will be a vastly superior experience. It's an environmental catastrophe if the best travel experience is also the least efficient.
- jMyles 10y ago
  My understanding is that, in a large majority of cases, flying has a large carbon footprint than driving.
  - JBReefer 10y ago
    For the entire plane, the MPG is much lower. For each passenger, that's certainly not true [0] It's the same for busses, boats, etc. [0] https://www.wired.com/2015/04/debate-settled-flying-way-efficient-driving/ https://www.wired.com/2015/04/debate-settled-flying-way-effi...
    - jMyles 10y ago
      Yep, I'm aware of the Michigan study, and I don't find its conclusions compelling. I don't think it's fair to say that it's "certainly" not true, as this study has not been reviewed and plenty of reasonable people believe that the evidence suggests a different conclusion. Here's a fairly straightforward critique of its methodology: https://thinkprogress.org/no-flying-is-not-greener-than-driving-7de8d53959ab#.b88klnj7a https://thinkprogress.org/no-flying-is-not-greener-than-driv... In fact, can you name any other study which comes to the same conclusion as this one?
      - duaneb 10y ago
        The article you linked makes the claim "not all trips are equal" and points out that some trips (e.g. local commutes) give driving a distinct edge. The trip between LA and SF falls on the opposite end of the spectrum, pulling the average trip toward being more flying friendly, especially if you can avoid driving to and from the airport, than your driving solo. I agree the original article isn't great, but the one you offered is equally insubstantial. It shouldn't be shocking to find the trip type impacts the energy use.
colmvp 10y ago
As annoying as SFO can be with for the reasons you've mentioned, it's miles better than going to Laguardia where there is no rail connection, and specific public transit buses go to specific terminals. When going to Laguardia from Manhattan, 89% of people commute by taxi/private car service!
- aianus 10y ago
  Last time I was in New York I was impressed by how easy and fast it was to take public transit from LaGuardia to Manhattan. One bus followed by one train. It certainly took less time (and way less money) than Uber was estimating.
cbhl 10y ago
I'm under the impression that in modern airport design, the door-to-door travel time from landing to baggage carousel is purposely lengthened so that you feel like you spend less time waiting for baggage handlers to get your bags off the plane (because you spend more time walking than standing).
johnm1019 10y ago
I think you've identified problems with how SFO is connected. To generalize that to all airports is a bit unfair.

fit2rule 10y ago

European airports can be extraordinarily well connected. (Most of the German ones, for example, are connected directly to local rail lines, which are another thing entirely.)

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
London as well: Heathrow is directly connected to the tube (subway) and Gatwick is directly connected to local rail. With only hand luggage and a scannable passport, it takes about 50 min. from getting of the plane at Gatwick until you're in the middle of the city.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  Should you ever be delayed at Gatwick, with pleasant weather, there's a public footpath that leads away from the airport along the river. It's amazing how quickly the airport disappears from view. I spent some of a 4 hour delay walking this path. The blue dotted line, go north then along the river: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.1581/-0.1632 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.1581/-0.1632
GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
Newark is terrible, but at least it's connected directly to NJTransit rail.

tajen 10y ago

> no concept of door to door travel time Yup, we should have a luggage drop wagon on board of the BART, and the BART should drop us at our gate. Obviously that implies the BART is also a giant TSA irradiation oven (Want to opt out? Well, there's the taxi).

deleted 10y ago
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duaneb 10y ago

> Overnight self-driving sleeper Uber will be a vastly superior experience. It's an environmental catastrophe if the best travel experience is also the least efficient.

jMyles 10y ago
My understanding is that, in a large majority of cases, flying has a large carbon footprint than driving.
- JBReefer 10y ago
  For the entire plane, the MPG is much lower. For each passenger, that's certainly not true [0] It's the same for busses, boats, etc. [0] https://www.wired.com/2015/04/debate-settled-flying-way-efficient-driving/ https://www.wired.com/2015/04/debate-settled-flying-way-effi...
  - jMyles 10y ago
    Yep, I'm aware of the Michigan study, and I don't find its conclusions compelling. I don't think it's fair to say that it's "certainly" not true, as this study has not been reviewed and plenty of reasonable people believe that the evidence suggests a different conclusion. Here's a fairly straightforward critique of its methodology: https://thinkprogress.org/no-flying-is-not-greener-than-driving-7de8d53959ab#.b88klnj7a https://thinkprogress.org/no-flying-is-not-greener-than-driv... In fact, can you name any other study which comes to the same conclusion as this one?
    - duaneb 10y ago
      The article you linked makes the claim "not all trips are equal" and points out that some trips (e.g. local commutes) give driving a distinct edge. The trip between LA and SF falls on the opposite end of the spectrum, pulling the average trip toward being more flying friendly, especially if you can avoid driving to and from the airport, than your driving solo. I agree the original article isn't great, but the one you offered is equally insubstantial. It shouldn't be shocking to find the trip type impacts the energy use.

colmvp 10y ago

As annoying as SFO can be with for the reasons you've mentioned, it's miles better than going to Laguardia where there is no rail connection, and specific public transit buses go to specific terminals. When going to Laguardia from Manhattan, 89% of people commute by taxi/private car service!

aianus 10y ago
Last time I was in New York I was impressed by how easy and fast it was to take public transit from LaGuardia to Manhattan. One bus followed by one train. It certainly took less time (and way less money) than Uber was estimating.

cbhl 10y ago

I'm under the impression that in modern airport design, the door-to-door travel time from landing to baggage carousel is purposely lengthened so that you feel like you spend less time waiting for baggage handlers to get your bags off the plane (because you spend more time walking than standing).

johnm1019 10y ago

I think you've identified problems with how SFO is connected. To generalize that to all airports is a bit unfair.