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The confusion stems from the idea that Burning Man is still a cultural phenomenon rather than just entertainment/art installation. An erroneous belief that the

The confusion stems from the idea that Burning Man is still a cultural phenomenon rather than just entertainment/art installation. An erroneous belief that the promoters seem to have internalized to their own confusion. Indeed, part of the entertainment value is the perception that just showing up in costume means you are engaged in significant culture production. So easy! Disappointment stems from attendees expecting a cultural phenomenon and getting a show; the expectation that Burning Man is still important but finding it's just a show. You don't get this problem at Disneyland because and talk of 'Disney spirit' is tongue in cheek. Here are some more substantial questions than the sort of feel good straw-man in the article. What new ideas have come out of it in the last 15 years? How do you create culture by showing up for a weekend to a catered camp ground and show? Is there any overlap at all to what attendees think about the meaning/point of Burning Man? So if you come west just add it to the Vegas-Disneyland circuit because that is all it is now. Indeed there is one advantage to Vegas and Disney, the cops don't shamelessly hassle gay people.

mgce 10y ago
Burning Man is fundamentally different than Disneyland and is still pumping out extremely strong culture. 99% of the disappointment people have at Burning Man is precisely because of that - expecting a "show", or something that's going to be on display to entertain them, then feeling bored / disillusioned / shunned when the reality that they have to do real work to connect into it sets (or doesn't set) in. Your interpretation sounds excessively jaded to me and irreconcilable with the communities I know that continue to nurture and grow from BM. I notice in particular your comment about coming to catered camps. That's precisely what Burning Man's community is pushing back hardest against, because the community wants to avoid the exact degeneration into vapid entertainment that you're claiming it's become. It's deeply deceptive to suggest this is a lost battle, or that the heart that makes this community something more isn't still strong and fighting very hard for the good fight. Edit: I didn't notice your comment about gay people. What are you trying to express there? Black Rock City has to be one of the most gay-friendly places on earth. Where are you getting these ideas?
- whybroke 10y ago
  I hope you are right about some culture production still going on, I can not speak to the whole event or even a statistically significant amount. Perhaps limiting ticket sales to a tiny time window has helped. Yes, the bulk of the community is gay friendly. The cops (which were not there in the early days) sure as hell are not. Aside form being told of other harassment by them, I personally witnessed an event in 2006 when two friends of mine were detained for the weekend in Reno on some ludicrous indecency charge and released on Monday without charge. So good luck to the event and its narrative but I and every one I know are sure as hell out of it.
  - mgce 10y ago
    A number of my close friends are part of the gay community there, so I strongly care about that issue. My experience has been that the gay community is very strong and has as good relations with police as anyone. Of all the complaints I've heard about police, I really haven't heard that as a theme. I'm sorry your friends had that bad experience. The (overbearing) presence of police is dispiriting, and is most definitely a sunk cost of the growth and notoriety of the event as it now is. No one enjoys that. It is what it is. That said, it's easy to overstate its impact - they're ultimately a very small part of the experience and don't really stop you from doing whatever you want to do out there. Burning Man is not what it was in 2000. People who really enjoyed what it was then may not enjoy what it is now. But it really isn't Disneyland or Vegas. Thankfully (in my experience), there's still a long, long way to go before it gets there. When it's getting there I'll be the first to step off the ride. But I'm still enthusiastically in love with what it is now and proud of the communities I know and have been a part of. They're some of the most solid people I've ever known. That's mostly, in the end, what keeps me there. Our conversation sounds like a "changing of the guards" dialogue. I'm glad you have good memories from your times and I hope you can find some joy knowing there are still people with fires in their heart stirring the flames.
    - whybroke 10y ago
      I am infinitely glad there are people with your sprint putting effort into making things work at burning man or anywhere else. I sincerely wish you the best.

mgce 10y ago

Burning Man is fundamentally different than Disneyland and is still pumping out extremely strong culture. 99% of the disappointment people have at Burning Man is precisely because of that - expecting a "show", or something that's going to be on display to entertain them, then feeling bored / disillusioned / shunned when the reality that they have to do real work to connect into it sets (or doesn't set) in. Your interpretation sounds excessively jaded to me and irreconcilable with the communities I know that continue to nurture and grow from BM. I notice in particular your comment about coming to catered camps. That's precisely what Burning Man's community is pushing back hardest against, because the community wants to avoid the exact degeneration into vapid entertainment that you're claiming it's become. It's deeply deceptive to suggest this is a lost battle, or that the heart that makes this community something more isn't still strong and fighting very hard for the good fight. Edit: I didn't notice your comment about gay people. What are you trying to express there? Black Rock City has to be one of the most gay-friendly places on earth. Where are you getting these ideas?

whybroke 10y ago
I hope you are right about some culture production still going on, I can not speak to the whole event or even a statistically significant amount. Perhaps limiting ticket sales to a tiny time window has helped. Yes, the bulk of the community is gay friendly. The cops (which were not there in the early days) sure as hell are not. Aside form being told of other harassment by them, I personally witnessed an event in 2006 when two friends of mine were detained for the weekend in Reno on some ludicrous indecency charge and released on Monday without charge. So good luck to the event and its narrative but I and every one I know are sure as hell out of it.
- mgce 10y ago
  A number of my close friends are part of the gay community there, so I strongly care about that issue. My experience has been that the gay community is very strong and has as good relations with police as anyone. Of all the complaints I've heard about police, I really haven't heard that as a theme. I'm sorry your friends had that bad experience. The (overbearing) presence of police is dispiriting, and is most definitely a sunk cost of the growth and notoriety of the event as it now is. No one enjoys that. It is what it is. That said, it's easy to overstate its impact - they're ultimately a very small part of the experience and don't really stop you from doing whatever you want to do out there. Burning Man is not what it was in 2000. People who really enjoyed what it was then may not enjoy what it is now. But it really isn't Disneyland or Vegas. Thankfully (in my experience), there's still a long, long way to go before it gets there. When it's getting there I'll be the first to step off the ride. But I'm still enthusiastically in love with what it is now and proud of the communities I know and have been a part of. They're some of the most solid people I've ever known. That's mostly, in the end, what keeps me there. Our conversation sounds like a "changing of the guards" dialogue. I'm glad you have good memories from your times and I hope you can find some joy knowing there are still people with fires in their heart stirring the flames.
  - whybroke 10y ago
    I am infinitely glad there are people with your sprint putting effort into making things work at burning man or anywhere else. I sincerely wish you the best.