7 ms·

http://nooga.com/174179/opentable-to-leave-chattanooga/ http://nooga.com/174179/opentable-to-leave-chattanooga/ Interesting. I know there are Very good reasons

by eganist 10y ago

http://nooga.com/174179/opentable-to-leave-chattanooga/ http://nooga.com/174179/opentable-to-leave-chattanooga/ Interesting. I know there are Very good reasons for not relocating to either Los Angeles or San Francisco, but what were the specific reasons (aside from family/homes, if any) you and the team had for opting not to relocate? Further to this: 2) Were team members offered raises as part of a relocation package? 3) Were team members offered the opportunity to work 100% remotely? 4) Has OpenTable approved this message? 5) Regardless of #4, are there certain conditions others would need to be aware of such as non-competes? I know NCAs are fairly (if not entirely) powerless in California, but I'm not aware of the laws impacting them in Tennessee. Edit: per user @rfc's jogging of my brain, Stripe has a program for hiring full development teams. @wilwade, this might be worth applying to. I know I posted it in another comment, but it's worthy of top-order visibility: https://stripe.com/blog/bring-your-own-team https://stripe.com/blog/bring-your-own-team

stray 10y ago
I can't speak for OP, but Chattanooga is a pretty awesome place to be. I left Chattanooga for Boulder and it was the second stupidest thing I've ever done. Ok, maybe third.
- austinlyons 10y ago
  Curious: From your perspective, what are some reasons you prefer Chattanooga over Boulder?
  - gregkerzhner 10y ago
    The appeal of both places is that they have a wealth of outdoor activities really close by (especially rock climbing). This is subjective, but I think the rock climbing is better in Chattanooga. Also, people are friendlier and more down to earth in Chatty, its that southern hospitality after all. The Boulderites have a reputation for being snobs and yuppies. Also the cost of living is way cheaper in Chattanooga.
    - AznHisoka 10y ago
      What's the difference between a yuppie, a hipster and a millenial? I get these buzzwords confused.
      - caleblloyd 10y ago
        a yuppie has an expensive car and house, a hipster has a bike and roommates, and a millennial borrows their parent's car and lives at home
        Grishnakh 10y ago
        Age too: yuppies are generally older ("yuppie" was a popular term in the 80s), hipsters are probably in their early 30s, and millennials are in their 20s-early 30s.
      - graton 10y ago
        Well "yuppie" came from Young Urban Professional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > What's the difference between a yuppie, a hipster and a millenial? A "yuppie" is an term of 1980s vintage for "young urban professional", formed directly from the phrase. A "hipster" is a term of more recent invention, for basically the same thing (a young urban professional). Both carry some implications of both in-group trendiness and conspicuous consumption though, with the changing character of the times, the "yuppie" has stronger associations with conspicuous consumption and "hipster" with trendiness with less general conspicuous consumption (and perhaps an outward, though often skin deep, rejection of consumerism.) A millennial is a member of a particular generational cohort, basically the group now between the mid-teens and mid-30s. Modern hipsters/yuppies are probably also millenials, but plenty of millenials are neither.
      - joeclark77 10y ago
        Does anybody remember the terms DINK or BoBo? Some fun nicknames for demographics that I haven't heard in a while.
  - stray 10y ago
    Boulder is a bit snobby and decidedly unfriendly (in a "I disapprove of your failure to believe precisely what everybody else thinks" sort of way). And it's godawful expensive. And not to put too fine a point on it, but motherfuck the snow. And Boulder rent.
- pooper 10y ago
  What do you not like about Boulder? I was there for a summer and I loved that place.
  - davidw 10y ago
    Boulder is really nice, but they have crazy NIMBY politics there: https://journal.dedasys.com/2015/06/18/boulder-colorado-vs-bend-oregon/ https://journal.dedasys.com/2015/06/18/boulder-colorado-vs-b...
- haney 10y ago
  I think I speak for everyone when I say that we miss having you in Chattanooga.
  - stray 10y ago
    I'm on the verge of coming back, brother.
    - joshmarlow 10y ago
      The Bulleit would abound.
wilwade 10y ago
1) Outside of family and homes, the cost of living is just crazy. Especially with a family. Also the area is more family friendly than SF (since I was there last). Commute is short and easy. Plus trees (different than SF). 2) Yes 3) No 4) As always comments are my own and may not reflect the opinions of my employer. (They have been quite kind in offering time and space to assist in job transition.) 5) These differ around the team, but shouldn't be an issue. Will look into Stripe!
- LargeCompanies 10y ago
  Heck yeah anywhere in TN vs. SAN Francisco. There's about a zero homeless epedemic(it's very sad to see/experience how many suffer on the streets there) in Nashville and elsewhere compared to the Mecca of that SAN Fran. Cost of living is great.. mountains.. fresh air.. no people shouting crazy stuff with a megaphone and more. Note I live and am from the D.C. area and graduated from MTSU.. visited SAN Fran many times for meetings with Google who stomped on me, a reality tv show and others startup adventures. Not my cup of tea even growing up close to D.C. And Baltimore which the same suffering isn't occurring on the same scale... maybe it's the weather... hoping in the next ten or more years SAN Fran changes/helps those in need.
  - mhluongo 10y ago
    As someone who's lived in both places, Nashville has plenty of issues as well. Never seeing homeless people or people who don't look like you doesn't mean they aren't the or that there's not a problem, it just means it's less visible
    - LargeCompanies 10y ago
      Yes less suffering in just about every US city then SAN Fran in this regards. Thankfully it's not seen that/as much in Nashville and Baltimore. More in the latter then the former.
      - oxryly1 10y ago
hn94805 10y ago
Quality of life. OT is offering good raises, so it's not really a money issue. For most of us, if we wanted to be in SF we'd already be in SF. Chattanooga is just a great place to live.
- kevinskii 10y ago
  I wasn't very familiar with Chattanooga before reading this thread, but after learning more about it I can see why you want to stay. It's a beautiful city.
gscott 10y ago
The ycombinator program is still open for submissions. A team like yours is exactly the fit they are looking for and going to the bay area is for a short time.
joshbetz 10y ago
> Interesting. I know there are Very good reasons for not relocating to either Los Angeles or San Francisco, but what were the specific reasons (aside from family/homes, if any) you and the team had for opting not to relocate? Do you need reasons other than family/homes?
ramses0 10y ago
I recently moved from TX to CA (Bay Area). I had a 3k s.f. house and an all-in monthly cost of ~$2k/mo (including mortgage, insurance, pest control, etc) for household expenses. I recently had a soft offer (verbal discussion of salary ranges) of around ~$150k to move back to TX. To match that in CA dollars, it requires ~$200k/yr+ compensation. Method: Use the following two tax estimators: https://smartasset.com/taxes/texas-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/texas-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator ...count ~$1500/mo => $20k/yr for housing in TX/Dallas, ~$3000/mo => $36k/yr for housing in Bay Area. ...count ~$12k/yr for living expenses in TX, $20k/yr for Bay Area ($1000/mo for restaurants, etc, in TX, $1500/mo in Bay Area... this accounts for increased food / restaurant / drink / entertainment / parking prices in California). TX: $20k housing + $12k living => $36k mandatory expenses CA: $36k housing + $20k living => $56k mandatory expenses Include a mandatory savings rate of 50% of yearly housing costs (insulate against layoffs / economic downturns) and you're at: $46k/yr for TX and $74k/yr for CA. An offer of $150k in TX gets you income after taxes of: ~$108k minus $46k living expenses for a savings rate of ~$62k/yr. To get to a $62k/yr savings rate in CA, you need $62k+$74k after tax income which is $136k total. That requires an offer of ~$200k/yr in CA. Obviously these numbers are very hand-wavy, but it is instructive to go through this exercise. Running these numbers at a more modest $100k salary in TX and keeping expenses the same (leading to a ~$12k/yr savings rate), you need ~$86k in after tax income which is a ~$130k CA salary, which is ~30% increase over a baseline $100k in TX for a transfer to make any kind of sense (plus relo expenses, one-time-costs, etc). A $12k/yr savings rate in TX for 10 years will get you $120k and a house. A $12k/yr savings rate in CA for 10 years will get you a down payment and nothing more (ie: you cannot live/retire where you work/earn).
- krschultz 10y ago
  Sounds about right to me, and I think your numbers are more accurate than most "cost of living" calculators because it doesn't sound like you got exactly the same house in CA that you had in TX. Most cost of living calculators assume if you have a 3k sf house in one place you'll do that again in the more expensive area, which is just not how people actually live. When you move somewhere more expensive you generally downsize a bit so the increase in spending is not as extreme. Finding only a 25% difference between CA & TX is pretty conservative.

by eganist 10y ago

stray 10y ago

I can't speak for OP, but Chattanooga is a pretty awesome place to be. I left Chattanooga for Boulder and it was the second stupidest thing I've ever done. Ok, maybe third.

austinlyons 10y ago
Curious: From your perspective, what are some reasons you prefer Chattanooga over Boulder?
- gregkerzhner 10y ago
  The appeal of both places is that they have a wealth of outdoor activities really close by (especially rock climbing). This is subjective, but I think the rock climbing is better in Chattanooga. Also, people are friendlier and more down to earth in Chatty, its that southern hospitality after all. The Boulderites have a reputation for being snobs and yuppies. Also the cost of living is way cheaper in Chattanooga.
  - AznHisoka 10y ago
    What's the difference between a yuppie, a hipster and a millenial? I get these buzzwords confused.
    - caleblloyd 10y ago
      a yuppie has an expensive car and house, a hipster has a bike and roommates, and a millennial borrows their parent's car and lives at home
      - Grishnakh 10y ago
        Age too: yuppies are generally older ("yuppie" was a popular term in the 80s), hipsters are probably in their early 30s, and millennials are in their 20s-early 30s.
    - graton 10y ago
      Well "yuppie" came from Young Urban Professional. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuppie
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > What's the difference between a yuppie, a hipster and a millenial? A "yuppie" is an term of 1980s vintage for "young urban professional", formed directly from the phrase. A "hipster" is a term of more recent invention, for basically the same thing (a young urban professional). Both carry some implications of both in-group trendiness and conspicuous consumption though, with the changing character of the times, the "yuppie" has stronger associations with conspicuous consumption and "hipster" with trendiness with less general conspicuous consumption (and perhaps an outward, though often skin deep, rejection of consumerism.) A millennial is a member of a particular generational cohort, basically the group now between the mid-teens and mid-30s. Modern hipsters/yuppies are probably also millenials, but plenty of millenials are neither.
    - joeclark77 10y ago
      Does anybody remember the terms DINK or BoBo? Some fun nicknames for demographics that I haven't heard in a while.
- stray 10y ago
  Boulder is a bit snobby and decidedly unfriendly (in a "I disapprove of your failure to believe precisely what everybody else thinks" sort of way). And it's godawful expensive. And not to put too fine a point on it, but motherfuck the snow. And Boulder rent.
pooper 10y ago
What do you not like about Boulder? I was there for a summer and I loved that place.
- davidw 10y ago
  Boulder is really nice, but they have crazy NIMBY politics there: https://journal.dedasys.com/2015/06/18/boulder-colorado-vs-bend-oregon/ https://journal.dedasys.com/2015/06/18/boulder-colorado-vs-b...
haney 10y ago
I think I speak for everyone when I say that we miss having you in Chattanooga.
- stray 10y ago
  I'm on the verge of coming back, brother.
  - joshmarlow 10y ago
    The Bulleit would abound.

wilwade 10y ago

1) Outside of family and homes, the cost of living is just crazy. Especially with a family. Also the area is more family friendly than SF (since I was there last). Commute is short and easy. Plus trees (different than SF). 2) Yes 3) No 4) As always comments are my own and may not reflect the opinions of my employer. (They have been quite kind in offering time and space to assist in job transition.) 5) These differ around the team, but shouldn't be an issue. Will look into Stripe!

LargeCompanies 10y ago
Heck yeah anywhere in TN vs. SAN Francisco. There's about a zero homeless epedemic(it's very sad to see/experience how many suffer on the streets there) in Nashville and elsewhere compared to the Mecca of that SAN Fran. Cost of living is great.. mountains.. fresh air.. no people shouting crazy stuff with a megaphone and more. Note I live and am from the D.C. area and graduated from MTSU.. visited SAN Fran many times for meetings with Google who stomped on me, a reality tv show and others startup adventures. Not my cup of tea even growing up close to D.C. And Baltimore which the same suffering isn't occurring on the same scale... maybe it's the weather... hoping in the next ten or more years SAN Fran changes/helps those in need.
- mhluongo 10y ago
  As someone who's lived in both places, Nashville has plenty of issues as well. Never seeing homeless people or people who don't look like you doesn't mean they aren't the or that there's not a problem, it just means it's less visible
  - LargeCompanies 10y ago
    Yes less suffering in just about every US city then SAN Fran in this regards. Thankfully it's not seen that/as much in Nashville and Baltimore. More in the latter then the former.
    - oxryly1 10y ago

hn94805 10y ago

Quality of life. OT is offering good raises, so it's not really a money issue. For most of us, if we wanted to be in SF we'd already be in SF. Chattanooga is just a great place to live.

kevinskii 10y ago
I wasn't very familiar with Chattanooga before reading this thread, but after learning more about it I can see why you want to stay. It's a beautiful city.

gscott 10y ago

The ycombinator program is still open for submissions. A team like yours is exactly the fit they are looking for and going to the bay area is for a short time.

joshbetz 10y ago

> Interesting. I know there are Very good reasons for not relocating to either Los Angeles or San Francisco, but what were the specific reasons (aside from family/homes, if any) you and the team had for opting not to relocate? Do you need reasons other than family/homes?

ramses0 10y ago

I recently moved from TX to CA (Bay Area). I had a 3k s.f. house and an all-in monthly cost of ~$2k/mo (including mortgage, insurance, pest control, etc) for household expenses. I recently had a soft offer (verbal discussion of salary ranges) of around ~$150k to move back to TX. To match that in CA dollars, it requires ~$200k/yr+ compensation. Method: Use the following two tax estimators: https://smartasset.com/taxes/texas-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/texas-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator https://smartasset.com/taxes/california-tax-calculator ...count ~$1500/mo => $20k/yr for housing in TX/Dallas, ~$3000/mo => $36k/yr for housing in Bay Area. ...count ~$12k/yr for living expenses in TX, $20k/yr for Bay Area ($1000/mo for restaurants, etc, in TX, $1500/mo in Bay Area... this accounts for increased food / restaurant / drink / entertainment / parking prices in California). TX: $20k housing + $12k living => $36k mandatory expenses CA: $36k housing + $20k living => $56k mandatory expenses Include a mandatory savings rate of 50% of yearly housing costs (insulate against layoffs / economic downturns) and you're at: $46k/yr for TX and $74k/yr for CA. An offer of $150k in TX gets you income after taxes of: ~$108k minus $46k living expenses for a savings rate of ~$62k/yr. To get to a $62k/yr savings rate in CA, you need $62k+$74k after tax income which is $136k total. That requires an offer of ~$200k/yr in CA. Obviously these numbers are very hand-wavy, but it is instructive to go through this exercise. Running these numbers at a more modest $100k salary in TX and keeping expenses the same (leading to a ~$12k/yr savings rate), you need ~$86k in after tax income which is a ~$130k CA salary, which is ~30% increase over a baseline $100k in TX for a transfer to make any kind of sense (plus relo expenses, one-time-costs, etc). A $12k/yr savings rate in TX for 10 years will get you $120k and a house. A $12k/yr savings rate in CA for 10 years will get you a down payment and nothing more (ie: you cannot live/retire where you work/earn).

krschultz 10y ago
Sounds about right to me, and I think your numbers are more accurate than most "cost of living" calculators because it doesn't sound like you got exactly the same house in CA that you had in TX. Most cost of living calculators assume if you have a 3k sf house in one place you'll do that again in the more expensive area, which is just not how people actually live. When you move somewhere more expensive you generally downsize a bit so the increase in spending is not as extreme. Finding only a 25% difference between CA & TX is pretty conservative.