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I love Lisp and I'd use it for everything if I could. But the Lisp community spends too much time talking about how awesome it is instead of making good framewo
by isaiahg 10y ago
I love Lisp and I'd use it for everything if I could. But the Lisp community spends too much time talking about how awesome it is instead of making good frameworks that anyone can use, even kids just out of college. It doesn't matter how beautifully made your project is. New programmers make trends. If the framework can't be picked up and run without spending years in the Lisp community it won't take off.
Look at Clojure. They offered the kids that started with Java something new but with a flair that was familiar. If you know Java, Clojure isn't too hard.
- justinhj 10y agoBut clojure is also a lisp unless you are using lisp to mean Common Lisp only?
- na85 10y agoComments like this are why I hate discussing Lisp. Nobody cares except language zealots.
- qwertyuiop924 10y agoYes we do. Language matters. If you can't say what you mean precisely, in a way that everyone can understand, than you've got a problem.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago"Be conservative in what you emit, and liberal in what you accept" (or words to that effect). Say what you mean precisely. But if you can't tolerate less than precise language from others, then you have a problem. It's your problem. Yes, they should speak more precisely, but you need to learn to live in the world we've got, not the one you wish we have. That means dealing with the people we've got, not the people you wish we had.
- qwertyuiop924 10y agoI do. But if you're just going to say that terminolgy doesn't matter, I'm sorry to say I don't agree.
- AnimalMuppet 10y agoNo, I'm not going to say that. Terminology matters. Accurate use of terminology matters. But there's a threshold for when to correct vs. when to just let it slide, and it seems to me that your threshold is too low (at least on this issue).
- qwertyuiop924 10y agoEntirely possible. It may have something to do with the fact that I'm getting sick of CL users insisting that CL is the only real lisp.
- AnimalMuppet 10y agoAh. Sounding off at the Nth annoying person, when you let the first N-1 slide. Been there...
- justinhj 10y agoUsing lisp interchangeably with Common Lisp is a frequent cause of confusion in lisp related conversations, so I'm hardly a language zealot mentioning it.
- lisper 10y agoI've been working on one: https://github.com/rongarret/ergolib https://github.com/rongarret/ergolib The beginnings of a book using this: https://github.com/rongarret/BWFP https://github.com/rongarret/BWFP Hello-world looks like: (require :ergolib) (defpage "/hello" "Hello world") (ensure-http-server 1234)
- qwertyuiop924 10y agoYou don't hear about it, but it happens. There's awful (http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/awful http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/awful), and Artanis (http://web-artanis.com http://web-artanis.com) for Chicken and Guile respectively. CL and Racket probably have something, I just don't know what as I don't know them as well.