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> So why not actually try to solve that problem - reach out to individuals, listen to them, and help them achieve their goals I do. I reach out to would-be pur

> So why not actually try to solve that problem - reach out to individuals, listen to them, and help them achieve their goals I do. I reach out to would-be purchasers of sex and those who would defend them, and point out the dire consequences of their approach. Economic transfer doesn't suddenly make rape something one should aspire to or tolerate.

vertex-four 10y ago
I was talking about sex workers. The ones you're not listening to. Edit: Specifically, if the goal is to help sex workers who want help, the solution is... to help sex workers who want help. It's to perform research into the barriers to seeking help, and try to remove those barriers. It's not to prevent consensual trade between a person who has few issues with their job, and someone seeking their services. If, on the other hand, the goal is to eradicate sex work against the wishes of those sex workers for reasons of morality, punishing people who participate in it is a wonderful idea.
- empthought 10y ago
  The goal is to eradicate sex work for reasons of "morality," exactly how the slavery abolition movement had no other reasons besides "morality."
  - vertex-four 10y ago
    OK. Exactly what about sex work is immoral, when the sex worker can choose their clients? Is it that sex is inherently something special that other work isn't?
    - empthought 10y ago
      The sex workers aren't the ones whose moral choice is in question here; the sex purchasers are the ones who should feel shame and whose behavior is for society to condone or to curtail. Slaves weren't the bad actors in that peculiar institution, either.
      - vertex-four 10y ago
        You're missing the question. Slavery is immoral because it's immoral to curtail the rights of people indefinitely. Which rights does consensual sex work curtail?
        empthought 10y ago
        The right of a person to not have sexual access to their body be reduced to the object of purchase with the purpose to gratify a person who holds economic power over them. Purchasing sex is an abuse of power. This isn't really an opt-out right; surely there are people who would "consent" to situations of slavery or apartheid. This doesn't mean we should make those things legal.
        vertex-four 10y ago
        That's a very specific right, and very very based in a specific morality, isn't it? There's certainly a good many people who don't think sex is as magical or special a thing as you obviously do. Many think of sex work as nothing more special than being expected to perform labour for several hours a day for a pittance.
        empthought 10y ago
        No, it's not based in any other morality than having bodily autonomy free from exploitation. If you want to disambiguate it from sex, consider whether someone should be able to sell (and thus another person to buy) an organ. Then consider that the demand for purchasing sex massively outstrips the demand for purchasing organs.
        vertex-four 10y ago
        Selling an organ implies the loss of something necessary for a full life. Not having an organ results in shortened lifespan and lower quality of life. If you could grow back the organ in a matter of seconds, we wouldn't have an issue with it. It'd be sore and likely physically demanding, but so's a lot of work. Selling sex doesn't imply the loss of anything.

vertex-four 10y ago

I was talking about sex workers. The ones you're not listening to. Edit: Specifically, if the goal is to help sex workers who want help, the solution is... to help sex workers who want help. It's to perform research into the barriers to seeking help, and try to remove those barriers. It's not to prevent consensual trade between a person who has few issues with their job, and someone seeking their services. If, on the other hand, the goal is to eradicate sex work against the wishes of those sex workers for reasons of morality, punishing people who participate in it is a wonderful idea.

empthought 10y ago
The goal is to eradicate sex work for reasons of "morality," exactly how the slavery abolition movement had no other reasons besides "morality."
- vertex-four 10y ago
  OK. Exactly what about sex work is immoral, when the sex worker can choose their clients? Is it that sex is inherently something special that other work isn't?
  - empthought 10y ago
    The sex workers aren't the ones whose moral choice is in question here; the sex purchasers are the ones who should feel shame and whose behavior is for society to condone or to curtail. Slaves weren't the bad actors in that peculiar institution, either.
    - vertex-four 10y ago
      You're missing the question. Slavery is immoral because it's immoral to curtail the rights of people indefinitely. Which rights does consensual sex work curtail?
      - empthought 10y ago
        The right of a person to not have sexual access to their body be reduced to the object of purchase with the purpose to gratify a person who holds economic power over them. Purchasing sex is an abuse of power. This isn't really an opt-out right; surely there are people who would "consent" to situations of slavery or apartheid. This doesn't mean we should make those things legal.
        vertex-four 10y ago
        That's a very specific right, and very very based in a specific morality, isn't it? There's certainly a good many people who don't think sex is as magical or special a thing as you obviously do. Many think of sex work as nothing more special than being expected to perform labour for several hours a day for a pittance.
        empthought 10y ago
        No, it's not based in any other morality than having bodily autonomy free from exploitation. If you want to disambiguate it from sex, consider whether someone should be able to sell (and thus another person to buy) an organ. Then consider that the demand for purchasing sex massively outstrips the demand for purchasing organs.
        vertex-four 10y ago
        Selling an organ implies the loss of something necessary for a full life. Not having an organ results in shortened lifespan and lower quality of life. If you could grow back the organ in a matter of seconds, we wouldn't have an issue with it. It'd be sore and likely physically demanding, but so's a lot of work. Selling sex doesn't imply the loss of anything.