8 ms·

"some publisher go to great lengths to try to disturb people from copying simple text and images" Genuine question: why is this a problem if the publisher does

by sbuk 10y ago

"some publisher go to great lengths to try to disturb people from copying simple text and images" Genuine question: why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all? I ask as an amateur photographer who doesn't want people to use their images without permission, especially for commercial gain. I choose to license my work as CC BY-NC-ND 4.0, but that doesn't mean others will necessarily honour my wishes. How can this be policed on a network as vast as the Internet? I get why DRM is almost assuredly not be the answer, but what are the other options (excluding CC licensing)? My issue here is that we make a lot of noise as to why DRM is bad, but the other solutions that I've seen are as bad, or offer little real protection to the content creator.

ingenter 10y ago
The answer is that it's technologically impossible to prevent third parties from using your work if you publish it. DRM doesn't solve this problem, but claims to do so. As a result, genuine users suffer from DRM.
- grahamel 10y ago
  Exactly that. I have issues watching copy protected dvds on my playstation where if I pause the film for a short while the copy protection kicks in and I can't watch the film, instead have to restart and fast forward to when I'd paused. That's content protection preventing me - a purchaser - using it properly.
  - kiallmacinnes 10y ago
    So, I have to ask! What makes you sure this is copy protection? It sounds more like a bug or fault rather than DRM.
    - themihai 10y ago
      Even if it's not the DRM fault here there are plenty of other examples. E.g. You can't copy/backup a DVD on your computer/stick/cloud so once the DVD format is deprecated(i.e. Macs no longer have a DVD-drive) or the DVD is lost you can't play it anymore. Not to mention the convenience. The latest wonder from the DRM promoters is the HDCP: People with 4K TVs can't play 4K TV content anymore because of this new "feature"[0]. Apparently the only sane solution is to hack the HDMI cable. [0] http://www.howtogeek.com/208917/htg-explains-how-hdcp-breaks-your-hdtv-and-how-to-fix-it/ http://www.howtogeek.com/208917/htg-explains-how-hdcp-breaks...
    - grahamel 10y ago
      True, it's likely a bug from either the disc or the player but if they weren't attempting DRM I wouldn't have the issue. Inconveniencing legitimate users because you can't implement the protections without it breaking isn't the way to go. I know I can download a copy of a film, push play/pause and it will just work. I know if I buy a dvd I'll have to sit through unskippable piracy messages and ads and not be sure the film will play after pausing.
      - plttn 10y ago
        How do you know that without a doubt it isn't just a bug in the software unrelated to whether or not DRM was implemented?
        grahamel 10y ago
        because when I do the same on a non DRM disc it doesn't happen
    - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
      > It sounds more like a bug or fault rather than DRM. Even if it isn't the DRM, it still is. Because the player could be open and someone could fix the bug if it weren't for the DRM.
- sbuk 10y ago
  "DRM doesn't solve this problem" Again, no wish to goad, but why?
  - nevon 10y ago
    Because it's literally impossible. If you want someone to be able to read your text or view your image, in the end the light has to reach the viewer's eyes, and that means it can be recorded. At best, DRM can be an annoyance. It can never stop unauthorized redistribution of material.
    - jsymolon 10y ago
      Don't Copy that Floppy. Perfect example from the 80's, an arms race to prevent copying of software, which ended up doing what ? Software still got copied while increasing the publishers cost. Now 30 years later, efforts to preserve are stymied by copy protection on failing hardware. In an ironic twist, the protection broken by the pirates is salvageable.
      - 794CD01 10y ago
        How can you expect anyone without a time machine to explain what it ended up doing? For example, we live in a world where companies like Adobe or Autodesk can sell software licenses for thousands of dollars. Would that be true if software piracy became the norm decades ago? Would we be better off one way or the other? Who can say?
        undersuit 10y ago
        What if piracy was never invented and we all just paid our dues. What a happy little libertarian utopia. >Would that be true if software piracy became the norm decades ago? How many decades ago? I built my first computer and installed pirate Windows and Photoshop versions back in 97. Warcraft had questions you had to answer during installation that were answers from the lore in the manual. Do you think people in the 80s with the first personal computers would see their friend use a new software and then wait 4-6 weeks for their own floppy disk to arrive in the mail?
- eveningcoffee 10y ago
  Yep. For example there is a image with power lines here https://backchannel.com/the-internet-really-has-changed-everything-here-s-the-proof-928eaead18a8 https://backchannel.com/the-internet-really-has-changed-ever... I liked to see the image as the whole. Had it been made not directly viewable by the publisher I would have had great pain to make it happen. Now I just opened it on another tab.
- gsnedders 10y ago
  > DRM doesn't solve this problem, but claims to do so. If you actually listen to any of the arguments being made on the W3C mailing lists, none of the pro-DRM sides have actually argued such an absolute stance, because they're not stupid and can see DRM regularly getting broken. The argument primarily centres on "casual piracy"—some technically illiterate user sending a copy of "something fun" to their friends—and not on eliminating piracy or preventing third parties from using your work.
  - JustSomeNobody 10y ago
    Is fixing "casual piracy" even going to make a dent in their spreadsheet? I doubt it.
    - gsnedders 10y ago
      It sounds like they believe there are more potential sales there than there are from other forms of pirates. (Whether that's true or not is anyone's guess!)
    - clarry 10y ago
      Such "casual piracy" is legal in my country, at least when it comes to music (and we pay for the priviledge, unfortunately). Publishers shouldn't mess with my rights.
- lucaspiller 10y ago
  There was a post on Reddit recently which is a great example of this. Somebody said that Netflix didn't support their monitor as it was too old (i.e. didn't support HDCP). One of the comments suggested to get a HDCP stripper, a simple device for $10, which will disable the DRM. https://www.reddit.com/r/Anticonsumption/comments/55r7i4/your_monitor_is_too_old_to_view_this_content/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Anticonsumption/comments/55r7i4/you...
  - ewzimm 10y ago
    Yes, all DRM is easy to bypass right now, but it works as a way to get studios on board with digital distribution. This brings up an interesting point. The main argument against DRM is that it is a slippery slope which will lead to more violations of freedom. But the problem with slippery slope arugments is that they're often unsubstantiated. We often don't know what the long-term effects of something will be. What if DRM is actually serving the opposite purpose? By appeasing studios with weak protections, it may be preventing stronger digital locks from being developed. It could be that if the FSF and other anti-DRM organizations are effective in removing current standards, the industry will respond by developing something even worse, leading to an ever-stronger DRM arms race. I'm not saying that I know this will be the result either, just that we don't really know what the effects of defeating standard DRM interfaces will be. The only real solution I can imagine would be to get content distributers not to want DRM, which is a very hard proposition. They have the money and the power, and they won't stop until they get what they want.
    - pdkl95 10y ago
      > DRM is easy to bypass right now That's because DRM isn't and never has been about preventing copying. The intent has always been to transfer power from consumers to the studios and tech manufacturers. It doesn't matter if the DRM can be defeated by some subset of consumers as long as the idea that you don't have the right to us your purchases as you see fit. As long as this erosion of property rights and the doctrine of first sale becomes normalized and you start believing in artificial scarcity, DRM will have served it's purpose. This is why it's so important to never compromise and accept any form of DRM. Compromise only shifts the Overton window[1] making change harder in the future. > it may be preventing stronger digital locks from being developed Even if "stronger digital locks" was the goal, you don't prevent future locks by allowing them today. > the industry will respond by developing something even worse They already do that. > They have the money and the power So they can use some of that money to develop their own players if they want to push DRM. There isn't any reason browser authors and the public in general should subsidize selfish businesses. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
- skybrian 10y ago
  SnapChat became popular because it restricts what people can do with a post. Its users don't seem to be suffering. So it seems that there is demand for this sort of thing from many users.
ris 10y ago
"why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all?" This misses the point. People when given a choice about something they don't fully understand will generally be conservative and protective. It would be very easy for the default to become locked-down for resources that haven't really had this fully considered for them. Which, if we're being honest, will be most of the web. It's also not so much about using a third party's work - the more valuable thing is being able to see how something works.
- sbuk 10y ago
  Right, but this is a moral argument. I'm uneasy with this because as much as I like the idea of sharing, I also respect peoples desires not to share.
  - wtetzner 10y ago
    If you want to share something, then share it. If you don't want to, then don't. Nothing is forcing people to share their content. DRM is saying you want to have your cake and eat it too. It's sort of like they're sharing content with you, but not really. You have to consume it the way they want to you to consume it. That's trying to control the experience, not the content, and I don't see any reason content creators have that right. If they don't want to let the content loose on the world, then they don't have to.
pjc50 10y ago
One problem is the unreasonable level of control over "second party" use - ie, people viewing it on the web as intended, but in a way that the publisher doesn't like. Whether they're using Linux or screen readers or adblockers or "non-standard" browsers. Even if they're just trying to fix usability problems in the site. Example: streaming video on the Raspberry Pi; the hardware is quite capable of it but if it requires an x86-only plugin to do so you're out of luck. Example: "readability mode" in browsers relies on the fact that currently text is not wrapped in DRM and can just be presented how you like it. Trivial, petty example: currently on Twitter there's no sensible way to view images full size or save them without going via the DOM explorer.
dingaling 10y ago
> but the other solutions that I've seen are as bad, or offer little real protection to the content creator. Frankly, "then don't put your content on the Internet" would have been the response 20 years ago. But that conflicted with making money over an ultra-low-cost, global, distribution medium so something had to give-way. The early days of the Web had a real new-frontier feel, as if the common man had finally found a platform for communicating with the World. It was heady and thrilling. But DRM, and content restrictions in general[0], is a rude reminder that the Web nowadays is primarily commercial and centralised and is run for profit, not enlightenment or sharing, and that creates an emotional response in many people. Perhaps that response is irrational, but it's widespread and deeply-set. A closing question: why do you want to put photographs on the Internet but also want to control what people do with them? Why not just keep them on your NAS, nice and safe? [0] I consider anything like -NC-ND to be content restrictions.
- tunap 10y ago
  "Perhaps that response is irational..." No argument to your points, but the quoted sentence deserves a response: It is not irrational to expect a product/service that is, and has always been, advertised as open & shared to be open & shared. False advertising, data sequestration and shady patterns are antonymous to the claims.
jordigh 10y ago
> why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all? Because they do some really stupid and awful things with js and css. For example, some websites try to hijack the clipboard so that if you highlight a piece of text, no matter how small (and small is allowed by fair use), it'll replace your clipboard contents with an attribution to the website or completely forbid you from copying the text. Some websites try to disable highlighting text via css or js. This one tries to hide its HTML source code, try looking at it without the DOM inspector: http://etimologias.dechile.net/ http://etimologias.dechile.net/ Fuck off, the data is on my computer, my home, my personal affairs. Don't try to hijack control away from my computer. Your perceived and exaggerated sense of author's rights or copyrights do not trump my right to use my clipboard or browser the way it was meant to be used. If we have a problem with how data is being handled, we take it to court. Letting people take data enforcement into their own hands by letting them subvert laws via technical means is vigilantism and a breach of rule of law.
AnthonyMouse 10y ago
> why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all? Because whether they are allowed to do that is a determination that has to be made by the law, not the company. Imagine someone is using your work for commercial gain and you want to sue them. If DRM is a thing and breaking it is illegal, you can't -- you need to make a copy of what's on their website to use as evidence against them, they put DRM on it that says you can't. (In practice this rarely happens because all the DRM is broken anyway, but what does that tell you?) And the same situation plays out in a hundred different ways. Imagine politicians owned all the clips of them speaking and could throw anything that discredits them down the memory hole. Or evil companies could prevent the press from publishing incriminating documents. It isn't a matter of whether there is some alternative. That is a thing that cannot be allowed to happen.
dahdum 10y ago
I use right click -> back to navigate, it drives me nutty when sites try to disable right click or put transparent gifs on top of everything.
saurik 10y ago
There are perfectly legal things one can do with your work under "fair use" that involve being able to reproduce your content that your technological lock can never discriminate.
criddell 10y ago
> why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all? Because it often breaks accessibility tools used by the blind, for instance. It also has a potential to break the social contract that copyright is based on. Copyright doesn't last forever, but most DRM schemes that I know of don't suddenly go away when the copyright term ends.
nathan_long 10y ago
> Genuine question: why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all? Suppose the publisher's content consists of slander or government propaganda. They use DRM to prevent copying or archiving or citing it properly, and revise it as they wish, denying that older versions were ever published. In the print days, you'd still have the old copy. Today, you can point to the internet archive. What if the text was DRM'd? What the publisher wants to permit is one consideration. What the reader has a right to do with what they're reading is another.

by sbuk 10y ago

ingenter 10y ago

The answer is that it's technologically impossible to prevent third parties from using your work if you publish it. DRM doesn't solve this problem, but claims to do so. As a result, genuine users suffer from DRM.

grahamel 10y ago
Exactly that. I have issues watching copy protected dvds on my playstation where if I pause the film for a short while the copy protection kicks in and I can't watch the film, instead have to restart and fast forward to when I'd paused. That's content protection preventing me - a purchaser - using it properly.
- kiallmacinnes 10y ago
  So, I have to ask! What makes you sure this is copy protection? It sounds more like a bug or fault rather than DRM.
  - themihai 10y ago
    Even if it's not the DRM fault here there are plenty of other examples. E.g. You can't copy/backup a DVD on your computer/stick/cloud so once the DVD format is deprecated(i.e. Macs no longer have a DVD-drive) or the DVD is lost you can't play it anymore. Not to mention the convenience. The latest wonder from the DRM promoters is the HDCP: People with 4K TVs can't play 4K TV content anymore because of this new "feature"[0]. Apparently the only sane solution is to hack the HDMI cable. [0] http://www.howtogeek.com/208917/htg-explains-how-hdcp-breaks-your-hdtv-and-how-to-fix-it/ http://www.howtogeek.com/208917/htg-explains-how-hdcp-breaks...
  - grahamel 10y ago
    True, it's likely a bug from either the disc or the player but if they weren't attempting DRM I wouldn't have the issue. Inconveniencing legitimate users because you can't implement the protections without it breaking isn't the way to go. I know I can download a copy of a film, push play/pause and it will just work. I know if I buy a dvd I'll have to sit through unskippable piracy messages and ads and not be sure the film will play after pausing.
    - plttn 10y ago
      How do you know that without a doubt it isn't just a bug in the software unrelated to whether or not DRM was implemented?
      - grahamel 10y ago
        because when I do the same on a non DRM disc it doesn't happen
  - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
    > It sounds more like a bug or fault rather than DRM. Even if it isn't the DRM, it still is. Because the player could be open and someone could fix the bug if it weren't for the DRM.
sbuk 10y ago
"DRM doesn't solve this problem" Again, no wish to goad, but why?
- nevon 10y ago
  Because it's literally impossible. If you want someone to be able to read your text or view your image, in the end the light has to reach the viewer's eyes, and that means it can be recorded. At best, DRM can be an annoyance. It can never stop unauthorized redistribution of material.
  - jsymolon 10y ago
    Don't Copy that Floppy. Perfect example from the 80's, an arms race to prevent copying of software, which ended up doing what ? Software still got copied while increasing the publishers cost. Now 30 years later, efforts to preserve are stymied by copy protection on failing hardware. In an ironic twist, the protection broken by the pirates is salvageable.
    - 794CD01 10y ago
      How can you expect anyone without a time machine to explain what it ended up doing? For example, we live in a world where companies like Adobe or Autodesk can sell software licenses for thousands of dollars. Would that be true if software piracy became the norm decades ago? Would we be better off one way or the other? Who can say?
      - undersuit 10y ago
        What if piracy was never invented and we all just paid our dues. What a happy little libertarian utopia. >Would that be true if software piracy became the norm decades ago? How many decades ago? I built my first computer and installed pirate Windows and Photoshop versions back in 97. Warcraft had questions you had to answer during installation that were answers from the lore in the manual. Do you think people in the 80s with the first personal computers would see their friend use a new software and then wait 4-6 weeks for their own floppy disk to arrive in the mail?
eveningcoffee 10y ago
Yep. For example there is a image with power lines here https://backchannel.com/the-internet-really-has-changed-everything-here-s-the-proof-928eaead18a8 https://backchannel.com/the-internet-really-has-changed-ever... I liked to see the image as the whole. Had it been made not directly viewable by the publisher I would have had great pain to make it happen. Now I just opened it on another tab.
gsnedders 10y ago
> DRM doesn't solve this problem, but claims to do so. If you actually listen to any of the arguments being made on the W3C mailing lists, none of the pro-DRM sides have actually argued such an absolute stance, because they're not stupid and can see DRM regularly getting broken. The argument primarily centres on "casual piracy"—some technically illiterate user sending a copy of "something fun" to their friends—and not on eliminating piracy or preventing third parties from using your work.
- JustSomeNobody 10y ago
  Is fixing "casual piracy" even going to make a dent in their spreadsheet? I doubt it.
  - gsnedders 10y ago
    It sounds like they believe there are more potential sales there than there are from other forms of pirates. (Whether that's true or not is anyone's guess!)
  - clarry 10y ago
    Such "casual piracy" is legal in my country, at least when it comes to music (and we pay for the priviledge, unfortunately). Publishers shouldn't mess with my rights.
lucaspiller 10y ago
There was a post on Reddit recently which is a great example of this. Somebody said that Netflix didn't support their monitor as it was too old (i.e. didn't support HDCP). One of the comments suggested to get a HDCP stripper, a simple device for $10, which will disable the DRM. https://www.reddit.com/r/Anticonsumption/comments/55r7i4/your_monitor_is_too_old_to_view_this_content/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Anticonsumption/comments/55r7i4/you...
- ewzimm 10y ago
  Yes, all DRM is easy to bypass right now, but it works as a way to get studios on board with digital distribution. This brings up an interesting point. The main argument against DRM is that it is a slippery slope which will lead to more violations of freedom. But the problem with slippery slope arugments is that they're often unsubstantiated. We often don't know what the long-term effects of something will be. What if DRM is actually serving the opposite purpose? By appeasing studios with weak protections, it may be preventing stronger digital locks from being developed. It could be that if the FSF and other anti-DRM organizations are effective in removing current standards, the industry will respond by developing something even worse, leading to an ever-stronger DRM arms race. I'm not saying that I know this will be the result either, just that we don't really know what the effects of defeating standard DRM interfaces will be. The only real solution I can imagine would be to get content distributers not to want DRM, which is a very hard proposition. They have the money and the power, and they won't stop until they get what they want.
  - pdkl95 10y ago
    > DRM is easy to bypass right now That's because DRM isn't and never has been about preventing copying. The intent has always been to transfer power from consumers to the studios and tech manufacturers. It doesn't matter if the DRM can be defeated by some subset of consumers as long as the idea that you don't have the right to us your purchases as you see fit. As long as this erosion of property rights and the doctrine of first sale becomes normalized and you start believing in artificial scarcity, DRM will have served it's purpose. This is why it's so important to never compromise and accept any form of DRM. Compromise only shifts the Overton window[1] making change harder in the future. > it may be preventing stronger digital locks from being developed Even if "stronger digital locks" was the goal, you don't prevent future locks by allowing them today. > the industry will respond by developing something even worse They already do that. > They have the money and the power So they can use some of that money to develop their own players if they want to push DRM. There isn't any reason browser authors and the public in general should subsidize selfish businesses. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
skybrian 10y ago
SnapChat became popular because it restricts what people can do with a post. Its users don't seem to be suffering. So it seems that there is demand for this sort of thing from many users.

ris 10y ago

"why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all?" This misses the point. People when given a choice about something they don't fully understand will generally be conservative and protective. It would be very easy for the default to become locked-down for resources that haven't really had this fully considered for them. Which, if we're being honest, will be most of the web. It's also not so much about using a third party's work - the more valuable thing is being able to see how something works.

sbuk 10y ago
Right, but this is a moral argument. I'm uneasy with this because as much as I like the idea of sharing, I also respect peoples desires not to share.
- wtetzner 10y ago
  If you want to share something, then share it. If you don't want to, then don't. Nothing is forcing people to share their content. DRM is saying you want to have your cake and eat it too. It's sort of like they're sharing content with you, but not really. You have to consume it the way they want to you to consume it. That's trying to control the experience, not the content, and I don't see any reason content creators have that right. If they don't want to let the content loose on the world, then they don't have to.

pjc50 10y ago

One problem is the unreasonable level of control over "second party" use - ie, people viewing it on the web as intended, but in a way that the publisher doesn't like. Whether they're using Linux or screen readers or adblockers or "non-standard" browsers. Even if they're just trying to fix usability problems in the site. Example: streaming video on the Raspberry Pi; the hardware is quite capable of it but if it requires an x86-only plugin to do so you're out of luck. Example: "readability mode" in browsers relies on the fact that currently text is not wrapped in DRM and can just be presented how you like it. Trivial, petty example: currently on Twitter there's no sensible way to view images full size or save them without going via the DOM explorer.

dingaling 10y ago

> but the other solutions that I've seen are as bad, or offer little real protection to the content creator. Frankly, "then don't put your content on the Internet" would have been the response 20 years ago. But that conflicted with making money over an ultra-low-cost, global, distribution medium so something had to give-way. The early days of the Web had a real new-frontier feel, as if the common man had finally found a platform for communicating with the World. It was heady and thrilling. But DRM, and content restrictions in general[0], is a rude reminder that the Web nowadays is primarily commercial and centralised and is run for profit, not enlightenment or sharing, and that creates an emotional response in many people. Perhaps that response is irrational, but it's widespread and deeply-set. A closing question: why do you want to put photographs on the Internet but also want to control what people do with them? Why not just keep them on your NAS, nice and safe? [0] I consider anything like -NC-ND to be content restrictions.

tunap 10y ago
"Perhaps that response is irational..." No argument to your points, but the quoted sentence deserves a response: It is not irrational to expect a product/service that is, and has always been, advertised as open & shared to be open & shared. False advertising, data sequestration and shady patterns are antonymous to the claims.

jordigh 10y ago

> why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all? Because they do some really stupid and awful things with js and css. For example, some websites try to hijack the clipboard so that if you highlight a piece of text, no matter how small (and small is allowed by fair use), it'll replace your clipboard contents with an attribution to the website or completely forbid you from copying the text. Some websites try to disable highlighting text via css or js. This one tries to hide its HTML source code, try looking at it without the DOM inspector: http://etimologias.dechile.net/ http://etimologias.dechile.net/ Fuck off, the data is on my computer, my home, my personal affairs. Don't try to hijack control away from my computer. Your perceived and exaggerated sense of author's rights or copyrights do not trump my right to use my clipboard or browser the way it was meant to be used. If we have a problem with how data is being handled, we take it to court. Letting people take data enforcement into their own hands by letting them subvert laws via technical means is vigilantism and a breach of rule of law.

AnthonyMouse 10y ago

> why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all? Because whether they are allowed to do that is a determination that has to be made by the law, not the company. Imagine someone is using your work for commercial gain and you want to sue them. If DRM is a thing and breaking it is illegal, you can't -- you need to make a copy of what's on their website to use as evidence against them, they put DRM on it that says you can't. (In practice this rarely happens because all the DRM is broken anyway, but what does that tell you?) And the same situation plays out in a hundred different ways. Imagine politicians owned all the clips of them speaking and could throw anything that discredits them down the memory hole. Or evil companies could prevent the press from publishing incriminating documents. It isn't a matter of whether there is some alternative. That is a thing that cannot be allowed to happen.

dahdum 10y ago

I use right click -> back to navigate, it drives me nutty when sites try to disable right click or put transparent gifs on top of everything.

saurik 10y ago

There are perfectly legal things one can do with your work under "fair use" that involve being able to reproduce your content that your technological lock can never discriminate.

criddell 10y ago

> why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all? Because it often breaks accessibility tools used by the blind, for instance. It also has a potential to break the social contract that copyright is based on. Copyright doesn't last forever, but most DRM schemes that I know of don't suddenly go away when the copyright term ends.

nathan_long 10y ago

> Genuine question: why is this a problem if the publisher doesn't want a third party to use their work without their permission, or at all? Suppose the publisher's content consists of slander or government propaganda. They use DRM to prevent copying or archiving or citing it properly, and revise it as they wish, denying that older versions were ever published. In the print days, you'd still have the old copy. Today, you can point to the internet archive. What if the text was DRM'd? What the publisher wants to permit is one consideration. What the reader has a right to do with what they're reading is another.